Greensboring.com | Greensboro, NC

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-09T22:09:01+00:00

Way ahead of you. I've been checking into that.

Statistics: Posted by Jamy — Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-09T16:04:58+00:00

Hmm, worth exploring. I'd like to know what you mean by karma, since it can mean everything from mysterious invisible particles that get attracted to nice thoughts (rather like the dust in 'The Golden Compass'); to the idea that thoughts and actions have consequences so you'd bett think enlightened thoughts

The former I find difficult to believe in, the latter is self evident

Statistics: Posted by A Person — Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:04 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-09T13:55:34+00:00

A Person wrote:
You don't have to buy into atheism, you just don't have to buy into any of the religions.

Ah... Well, I don't buy into a lot of them, but there are some that I am rather partial to. Buddhism for example resonates strongly with me. I don't believe in reincarnation at all, but karma I totally believe.

Hmmm...I guess I DO have a conviction after all. I genuinely believe in karma. In fact, I'd say that the parts of Christianity that do resonate with me are very similar to some Buddhist teachings.'

Well, I can see what I'll be mulling over today now. LOL

Statistics: Posted by Jamy — Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T22:15:10+00:00

Jamy wrote:
Well if I ever meet you, I'll have to buy you a beer then.

My kind of lady

Jamy wrote:
I would like to be an atheist or a devoted Christian or whatever religion I can buy into wholeheartedly...one or the other

I think you maybe misunderstand what being an atheist is. It's a cliche, but we're all atheists about the vast majority of religions/gods, atheists just go one god further. You don't have to buy into atheism, you just don't have to buy into any of the religions.

Jamy wrote:
I have no logic or reason for what believe except that I just feel that there something powerful out there in the universe.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy wrote:
Arthur: All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's something big and sinister going on in the world.
Slartibartfast: No, that's perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the universe gets that.

I suspect that most people, including atheists, have that feeling of awe and wonder when they contemplate the universe. It is an awesome thing that can leave you feeling very small and insignificant, but can also give you a sense that you are so very fortunate to exist at all. I think it's sufficiently awesome by itself without having to imagine something awesomer that made it. But it's such a huge leap to go from the awesomeness of the universe to a god who seems concerned with how much skin to cut off the end of your penis and how, when and who you can stick it into.

I'd say I am agnostic when it comes to the deism thing - the universe as a god - but atheistic about Jehovah, Allah, Zeus etc which are so clearly man-made. It's incomprehensible to me that a god that can make the universe would be concerned about the activities of an unremarkable mammal that makes up a small percentage of life on an an utterly "insignificant little blue-green planet far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the galaxy". And not even 'the' galaxy, but one of billions and billions. The suggestion that it was necessary to make all this, just to create this species to worship Him is bizarre.

I have no complaint about the deist deity - except that it seems to be unnecessary. As far as an argument about it, it's difficult to get worked up about something so nebulous and irrelevant to daily life.

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy wrote:
Slartibartfast: Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day.
Arthur Dent: And are you?
Slartibartfast: Ah, no. Well, that's where it all falls down, of course.

Statistics: Posted by A Person — Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:15 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T21:15:43+00:00

Liv wrote:
That said, I'm convinced sometimes the most important discussions in life, are the hardest ones to have.

I think so too.

Statistics: Posted by Jamy — Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:15 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T21:04:56+00:00

Let's not forget, it's, even among the UK and Canada which AP is en-cultured in, taboo to argue against religion. If we were talking about some random subject like, the paradoxes in Back to The Future, we could all speak very vehemently towards one another and we'd think it's funny, or in good argument... but because we've all been brought up with the idea that arguing religion is "uncomfortable" or "wrong", and that religion tends to define a person's value as a human, we've applied a stigma to it.

Some atheists don't see the point in endorsing the cultural norm of keeping religion in its fragile's protected self, because that stigma in itself appears to go against logic.

That said, I'm convinced sometimes the most important discussions in life, are the hardest ones to have.

I personally believe, text, such as a website, is one of the better methods for having discussions on religion, because it allows us to be definitive, cite sources, etc.

We've all listened to idiots, and been burned, but if you can make me see value in your argument then I'm much more likely to endorse the idea.

Indeed, many of my views have been transformed by this community. Some of my views, reversed by spending time with devout Christians, but ultimately my viewpoint is my own, and others' adoptions of it is completely voluntary- something my adversaries would be unlikely to equally extend to you.

Statistics: Posted by Liv — Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:04 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T20:57:14+00:00

Well if I ever meet you, I'll have to buy you a beer then.

One of the reasons I like coming here is because I do like hearing other perspectives. I doubt you've raised any questions or concerns with religion that i haven't thought of myself. I have no logic or reason for what believe except that I just feel that there something powerful out there in the universe. Simple as that. I would like to be an atheist or a devoted Christian or whatever religion I can buy into wholeheartedly...one or the other, but instead, i find myself just stuck with this persistent neither this nor that feeling that I do believe in something...I'm just not sure what.

How annoying is THAT?

At least you have firm convictions. My only conviction is a feeling that there is something more. I have no logic to debate it with.

Statistics: Posted by Jamy — Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:57 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T18:17:51+00:00

Jamy wrote:
Does this mean you wouldn't tolerate me if I were to meet you some day?

You'll find me polite, friendly and reasonable. I have a lot of friends who are religious, (and a daughter) and some that are alternative medicine, horoscope, homeopathic woo believers too. We mostly avoid contentious topics.

But if you wish to engage me on the subject of origins, ethics, abortion, science, then you'd better be prepared to support claims with logic, reason and evidence since I won't give any credence to what a tribe of nomadic iron age shepherds wrote or what the Pope may think.

I will never say that Christians are stupid just because they are Christians. I will say that the core beliefs of Christianity are silly and even rather immoral. And that religions are a net detriment to society, not a benefit.

As I said, I don't know your sister, but most times when atheists are described as 'fundamentalist', 'strident', 'militant' etc., they are simply refusing to give religious claims immunity from reason. Dawkins for example is frequently described in those terms, yet when you listen to him, he's invariably calm, even tempered, polite and never violent. But he is assertive and in our culture being assertive for religion is just fine but being assertive against it is unacceptable.

Statistics: Posted by A Person — Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:17 pm

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T02:48:43+00:00

I know all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. I'll be vicious, just like Doug Piranha.

I hate to admit it, but I have no doubt that you could. You make me nervous as hell. LOL

Statistics: Posted by Jamy — Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:48 am

Re: Should atheists be tolerant of the religious.

2012-02-08T02:45:21+00:00

Yeah...that was an exaggeration. But yes, by attack I was referring to verbal assault and no, it was not "criticism" or even an argument, it was a personal verbal assault. I'm sorry, but I don't think hating a person for the actions of others in a group they belong to is right. Words said in hatred are words said in hatred. Right?

I'm just not comfortable with that level of vehemence against any group, even if its just vocal. It feels negative in a really unhealthy way. If a person isn't trying to convert you or tell you how to live or what to do or doing anything to hurt anyone, why wouldn't you tolerate them? Does this mean you wouldn't tolerate me if I were to meet you some day?

Statistics: Posted by Jamy — Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:45 am