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Prius Ego Trip

by Liv | Published on October 22nd, 2007, 5:22 am | Science
ToyotaPrius.jpg

According to CNN yesterday, the reason the Toyota Prius, a hybrid vehicle, outsells any other Hybrid, is because it looks different. It makes a statement. People want to be seen in a car that's instantaneously recognizable as green, and the Prius has a unique and distinct look unlike anything on the road today. The message to automakers is if you're going to make it a Hybrid, make it stand out.

Isn't that the American way? The Mustang for years was popular not because it was a sports car with a huge engine, but because it was a Mustang, and people thought they were fast. In fact the V8 model sold far fewer then the V6 dubbed the "secretary version" because of the hordes of secretaries that owned them.

People now think it's cool to be eco-friendly, but I'm not sure they really stand behind all the principles of saving the earth.

At least it's a start & maybe this means they'll be bringing back the AMC Pacer.
 
 
Well the Prius is a lot better looking than the other Hybrids (Sorry SFI), and if memory serves, a lot more roomy for the people in front. That said, I think they are very limited in what they can do design wise due to the necessary weight of the vehicle.
October 22nd, 2007, 10:03 am
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Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
The Camry Hybrid looks just like the regular Camry as do all the SUV's: Highlander, Ford Escape and Saturn Vue. You'd have to paint trees and puffy clouds on it to let people know that your SUV consumes the same amount of gas as a regular car. What's wrong with a diesel truck, they have BETTER fuel economy than a hybrid? (The answer is that hybrids are cool and green and evokes images of trees and fluffy bunny rabbits, whereas diesels are boring and smelly and evokes images of Kris Kristofferson and Ali MacGraw, "Yawn, that's so 1978")
October 22nd, 2007, 10:18 am
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A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
A Person wrote:The Camry Hybrid looks just like the regular Camry as do all the SUV's: Highlander, Ford Escape and Saturn Vue. You'd have to paint trees and puffy clouds on it to let people know that your SUV consumes the same amount of gas as a regular car. What's wrong with a diesel truck, they have BETTER fuel economy than a hybrid? (The answer is that hybrids are cool and green and evokes images of trees and fluffy bunny rabbits, whereas diesels are boring and smelly and evokes images of Kris Kristofferson and Ali MacGraw, "Yawn, that's so 1978")


It was my understanding these cars had different materials in the construction to make them lighter. I was told that these models (that had gas powered counterparts like the camery) were not actually as efficient as those hybrids designed soley as a gas/electrics. This is false?
October 22nd, 2007, 10:26 am
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Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
Gas trucks have awful mileage. Diesels are much better. Gas-electric hybrids are almost as good as diesels. I anticipate the next gen. hybrids will have diesel/electric systems.
October 22nd, 2007, 10:40 am
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A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
Sanjuro wrote:Well the Prius is a lot better looking than the other Hybrids (Sorry SFI),

Looks are a matter of taste. I like the look of mine. Though I would love to change the color.
and if memory serves, a lot more roomy for the people in front.

I was pleasantly surprised at the room in my car's interior for the driver and passenger. A lot better than most people seem to expect just looking at it.
That said, I think they are very limited in what they can do design wise due to the necessary weight of the vehicle.

Well, I bought my 2-seater knowing in advance that it would be strictly a commuting car. And really, it has turned out to be a pretty nice hauler. I once drove my son and myself down to Murrell's Inlet with all of our SCUBA equipment and luggage for a weekend diving expedition. Pretty neat trip...
October 22nd, 2007, 10:45 am
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SouthernFriedInfidel
 
Location: 5th circle of hell -- actually not very crowded at the moment.
Looks are a matter of taste. I like the look of mine. Though I would love to change the color


Me and Shannon did a "Pick your Prius" while out in LA where there are a Gajillion Prius-es on the road.

We decided it's a toss up between the "charcoal" & the "silver".

I anticipate the next gen. hybrids will have diesel/electric systems.


I'm actually still hoping by the time I get the money saved to buy one, they have a diesel hybrid option.

Yes, a veggie powered hybrid... that would be really cool.

Better yet, a pluggable, veggie hybrid....
October 22nd, 2007, 1:42 pm
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
I like the whole grease car idea. http://www.greasecar.com

Once you've done super-sizing it at Mickey D's, then you can get their left over grease to run your car (providing it's a diesel with the proper conversions). You can then brew up some fuel in your back yard. No more trapsing off to the Circle K for dinosaur juice!
October 22nd, 2007, 4:25 pm
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Pineview Style
 
Location: A Dumpster Behind McD's
This prius has a much bigger ego trip:

prius-stretch-limo.jpg


http://www.neatorama.com/2007/10/22/prius-stretch-limo/
October 22nd, 2007, 8:28 pm
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Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
I'd cut out my left eyeball for a convertible Prius.
October 22nd, 2007, 8:39 pm
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
Cnn has a very interesting article about Hybrid history, and it's future possibilities:

CNN:
The Toyota Prius was the dream of engineer Takeshi Uchiyamada.

In 1994, he finally got his dream. Little did he know that the car he was about to design -- the Prius -- would revolutionize the global auto industry.

Uchiyamada, 61, now executive vice president, was tackling the first mass production gas-electric hybrid, which celebrates its 10th anniversary in December.

The Prius was a big step forward for the future of green cars. Up next for Toyota and its rivals: Far more powerful batteries for next-generation hybrids, plug-in electric cars and eventually zero-emission fuel-cell vehicles powered by hydrogen, which combines with oxygen in the air to form water.

Introduced in Japan in December 1997, and the following year in the U.S., the Prius, now in its second generation, gets about 46 miles per gallon switching between a gas engine and electric motor. It has been by far the most successful hybrid, selling a cumulative 829,000 vehicles -- making up for most of Toyota's nearly 1.2 million hybrid sales.

Toyota has gotten a kick from the Prius, an enhanced global image for technological innovation, social responsibility and fashionable glamour, analysts say.

The Prius is also one solid bright spot for Toyota, as it targets a record of selling 10.4 million vehicles globally in 2009.

Orders from management -- Come up with the 21st century car, the vehicle that would hands-down beat the competition in mileage and environmental friendliness.

Creating a hybrid would demand excruciating labor, and management had moved up the deadline to 1997. The engineering obstacles were tremendous, especially the development of the hybrid battery, which must deliver power and recharge in spurts as the car is being driven.

As Uchiyamada tells it, the Prius wasn't the kind of car Toyota would have ever approved as a project, if standard decision-making had been followed. It was sure to be a money loser for years.

Conventional wisdom was wrong; Toyota's once skeptical rivals are now all busy making hybrids.

Porsche AG showed off a version of its Cayenne sport utility vehicle that is powered by hybrid technology developed with Volkswagen, and BMW pulled back the curtain on its X6, an SUV coupe crossover hybrid.

General Motors Corp., which makes the Saturn Vue, Saturn Aura and Chevrolet Malibu hybrids, is working on a more advanced lithium-ion battery to beat Toyota in the race to bring to market plug-in hybrids, which recharge from a regular home socket. GM has begun production of a two-mode gas-electric hybrid transmission system for the 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and GMC Yukon Hybrid SUVs which uses a computer to choose from thousands of combinations of two electric motors and the gasoline engine.

Ford Motor Co. already has its Escape Hybrid, introduced in 2004, but is working on improved versions. Earlier this year, Ford and Southern California Edison agreed to test rechargeable hybrid vehicles in an effort to speed up their mass production.

Chrysler LLC is debuting a new hybrid system next year on the Chrysler Aspen and Dodge Durango sport utility vehicles.

Toyota showed a "concept" plug-in Prius made of carbon fiber reinforced plastic that's about a third of the weight of the current Prius and doubles mileage.

Nissan Motor Co. has fallen behind Toyota in hybrids, and is instead focusing on electric cars with plans to mass market them by 2012.

Toyota officials acknowledge Honda Motor Co. is their biggest threat in developing new hybrids. Honda, which already markets the Civic hybrid, is hot on Toyota's heels with a hybrid sports car, a fuel-cell vehicle and other ecological cars.

"The popularity of Toyota's hybrids has been limited so far to the Prius. That means Toyota still has a lot of work to do," he said. "If a car doesn't meet consumer expectations, it won't sell. That's the fate Prius must now shoulder: It can't disappoint fans."

Uchiyamada and Satoshi Ogiso, executive chief engineer working on the next Prius, confidently promise greater things.

The third-generation Prius could include a new lithium-ion battery more advanced than the current nickel-metal hydride battery, allowing more power to be packed into a smaller battery.

But engineers acknowledge that will require a breakthrough in battery technology.

Toyota has other options in the works to dramatically boost mileage and performance, so a battery upgrade isn't the only way to revamp the Prius, he said. Toyota recently has begun public road tests on a plug-in hybrid.

Uchiyamada -- who has spent 38 years as an engineer at Toyota -- admits much of Prius' success was sheer luck.

He still remembers the thrill he felt when he saw a Prius on the streets driven not by an engineer, but by a real customer.

He said. "I feel the Prius is like my own child."
November 6th, 2007, 9:24 am
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
A gas/electric hybrid is the best economical way to usher in the alterative fuel goal.

The GLOBAL, not just U.S., economy relies on oil. From workers to bring it out of the earth, to workers refining it, to workers making products that require it.

To go cold-turkey would disrupt too much.

But to wean off it slowly, that's the way to go. People will accept it more and be willing to embrace "green" more than now.

Right now we're approaching refined oil products exceeding the supply that can be output. That will drive the demand for better fuel economy and conservation even more. What's going to be interesting is when we get to a point where new technology starts to drop the demand of refined oil and prices significantly drop. Will the drive to go green get stalled until we get tired of paying $3 per gallon again?

One thing is for sure, when demand drops well below available capacity, you'll see the Saudi's start to become more friendly and less demanding. It will be quite something if we ever get to day when we tell the Mideast "Sorry guys. We don't need your oil any more. You work out your own problems."
November 6th, 2007, 9:52 am
Matt
 
Will the drive to go green get stalled until we get tired of paying $3 per gallon again?


I'm quite convinced now that NBC and CNN have gone green there will be no stall. The fad is now full blown, and American innovation will return as people fall from grace in their sub-prime loans and credit cards which are max out. The world is about to change, and only those who adapt will survive.... Go green now, or else.
November 6th, 2007, 10:10 am
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
Liv wrote:
Will the drive to go green get stalled until we get tired of paying $3 per gallon again?


I'm quite convinced now that NBC and CNN have gone green there will be no stall. The fad is now full blown, and American innovation will return as people fall from grace in their sub-prime loans and credit cards which are max out. The world is about to change, and only those who adapt will survive.... Go green now, or else.


I'll take my seat on that band wagon.
November 6th, 2007, 10:29 am
Matt
 
I think that anything, and everything you can do to prepare yourself for the "new world" is necessary and prudent. When Iran goes nuclear.... I hate to say it, but that's the end of Gasoline as we know it.

Personally if anyone is planning on buying a new car, and I think it's almost stupid not to buy a Hybrid unless you need a truck etc...

The idea that people are still buying Hummers and driving down Benjamin PKWY to work in a cube, blows my mind.

I don't mean to be the Time Square nut job yelling the "end is near" but someday, at somepoint, alot of people won't be "able" to get to work, because they don't have the money. You can't sell you house, and move closer because you owe more than you paid for it, and you have no credit because your credit cards have been maxed trying to make minimum payments.

Refine your skills, work close to home, Reduce your energy consumption, and save as much money as possible.

This should be everyone's mantra until some genius invents the Honda Accord with anti-matter warp drive.
November 6th, 2007, 12:33 pm
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
Liv wrote:Cnn has a very interesting article about Hybrid history, and it's future possibilities:

Huh. It mentioned a lot of other hybrids, but ignored my 60 mpg wonder -- the Honda Insight. Oh well...
November 6th, 2007, 5:00 pm
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SouthernFriedInfidel
 
Location: 5th circle of hell -- actually not very crowded at the moment.
I'm very disappointed with the hybrids the auto industry is currently building. In Europe Plug-in hybrids are already on the market. No, they won't go 400 miles between charges but that's what the engine is for. Every hybrid currently being built is a parallel hybrid but inline hybrids are far more fuel efficent and are easier to build. Every diesel train in the USA is an inline hybrid. The diesel engines don't move the train, the electric motors move the train. The diesel engines on the train aren't even connected to the wheels. All the diesel engines do is spin generators to charge the batteries. This is 75+ year old technology that works and has been proven in billions of miles of rail travel. It's obvious to me that the auto industry doesn't want to change the way they build cars.

And to add insult to injury, my brother's 1964 Opal Cadet got 55 miles per gallon and it wasn't a hybrid. It had a 1600cc 4 cylinder engine with a 1 barrel carborator, a 4 speed transmission and anyone could fix it. He still curses the day he got ride of that car.
November 6th, 2007, 5:24 pm
Billy The Blogging Poet
 
I'm just amazed at how many Hybrids are SUV's:

Porsche Cayenne
BMW X6,
Chevrolet Tahoe
GMC Yukon Hybrid
Ford Escape
Chrysler Aspen
Dodge Durango

These have the same fuel consumption as a traditional mid-size car, and not so very different from a Diesel SUV. Now I suppose it's better to drive a hybrid SUV than a gas SUV, but surely getting these people to buy cars instead of heavy, aerodynamic bricks would be a better goal.

Personally I'd rather buy a turbo-diesel than a hybrid. (especially a gas powered hybrid) but there's almost no choice on this side of the Atlantic. Europe is already almost 50% diesel.

I do a lot of highway miles (about 100 miles a day) and a hybrid isn't good at that. I seriously looked at a Camry hybrid, but for the kind of driving I do it wouldn't make any significant difference. A turbo-diesel would.
November 6th, 2007, 7:27 pm
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A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
I mean truth be known, we are aware that Government enables fossil fuel vehicles because it doesn't want to kill off such a vital part of the economy. On the other hand it's began to realize, as gas prices increase so does citizen morale decline, and the closer we get to running out of the resource before we have a suitable, reliable replacement. Back when I used to hot-rod cars, I had an 95 Civic DX with the basic four cylnder which after some mild changes eventually pounded out between 40-50 MPG... that was 12 years ago. I'm sure a hybrid when tinkered with could easily add another 10 MPG-20MPG just from improving on the problems of mass production. What Hybrids need is the thriving aftermarket and tuners willing to experiment.... Once those filter down back into the production vehicle we should see improvements people won't be able to ignore.
November 6th, 2007, 7:51 pm
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
It all comes down to $$$

Fuel in England is twice the price it in in the US. So people buy smaller cars and demand diesels. You still see SUV's, Range Rovers etc, but they're not as common (and they run diesel too)

It doesn't stop people driving but it does make you a lot more conscious of the amount of fuel you use. I don't know why in the US it's hybrids all the way and no to diesels. I like my Subaru, but VW make what I want: a four wheel drive station wagon with turbo-diesel. I tried to buy one, but they don't sell it in North America - "There's no demand".
November 6th, 2007, 9:34 pm
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A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
Honestly I think It's Diesel's Image... Here in America it brings the image of 18 wheelers with black smoke pouring out of it's stacks and dirty black snow. Not exactly a "green" image. People don't understand that those perceptions were from lack regulations rather than a "dirty" technology.
November 7th, 2007, 7:54 am
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
In the mid 90s at least three manufacturers developed and produced fully electric plug in vehicles;
General Motors -- EV1
Ford-- Electric Ranger
Nissan-- Sentra Station wagon
Honda-- EV Plus
After “marketing tests” these vehicles were reclaimed and crushed by the manufacturers. They said the demand wouldn’t justify the production of these vehicles. A few still exist, only after some consumers went to court to keep them. Some manufacturers said these were just test vehicles for the hybrids.

Hybrids, in the US, are produced and sold for the sole purpose of the reduction of Hydrocarbons (HC), Carbon monoxide (CO) and Oxides of Nitrogen (Nox) as mandated by the EPA, not for fuel mileage.
HC + Nox + UV light = Smog…Bad
CO = Poison Gas….Bad
Any increase in MPG was good, but not the primary goal.
CO2 exhaust production goes up the more efficient an internal combustion engine runs. CO2 is the primary cause of global warming. Every time a state tries to implement standards that require reduction in vehicle CO2 production the manufacturers cry foul because this would change fuel mileage. The Federal government mandates MPG (CAFE standards) so the states can’t supercede the Fed.
As long as the manufacturers average =27.5 cars, 22.2 trucks across the production line, they can sell the big gas suckers because that is what Americans buy! Vehicles over 8.500 GVW aren’t even used in the calculation for CAFE.
http://www.pbs.org/now/science/caautoemissions2.html
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/overview.htm

Hydrogen fuel cell development (for vehicles) doesn’t look too promising --(Insert more boring technical stuff here)

I don't mean to be the Time Square nut job yelling the "end is near"


Check this out http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

Ya'll shouldn't talk about cars... I tend to get long winded, sorry.
November 7th, 2007, 11:20 pm
MaxOverdrive
 
Ya'll shouldn't talk about cars... I tend to get long winded, sorry.


Don't be sorry at all, It's important that the world start talking about this. It's insane that we're causing harm to the earth, not of need, not even out of convience, but because someone would lose money if we go to a less harmful form of transportation.

The technology exists today, and I agree... everyone needs to download or rent "Who Killed The Electric Car."

It's important that we educate, and spread the word. One only needs to look at our catastrophic damage to the polar ice sheets to know we need to stop whats going on.
November 8th, 2007, 5:34 am
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Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
MaxOverdrive wrote:CO2 exhaust production goes up the more efficient an internal combustion engine runs.
You'll have to explain that to me. It doesn't seem reasonable. If there were perfect combustion of a hydrocarbon fuel you would end up with CO2 and water. If the car is less efficient more CO and unburnt hydrocarbons are emitted and the catalytic converter finishes the combustion, turning these products into CO2 and water, wasting the energy as heat.

For an equivalent amount of work, the more efficient car will surely emit less CO2?
November 8th, 2007, 8:26 am
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A Person
 
Location: Slightly west of the Great White North
You'll have to explain that to me. It doesn't seem reasonable. If there were perfect combustion of a hydrocarbon fuel you would end up with CO2 and water. If the car is less efficient more CO and unburnt hydrocarbons are emitted and the catalytic converter finishes the combustion, turning these products into CO2 and water, wasting the energy as heat.

For an equivalent amount of work, the more efficient car will surely emit less CO2?


That’s right, perfect combustion (14.7:1 ratio) results in CO2 and Water. Rich mixtures result in higher CO and HC but more horse power. Lean mixtures result in higher NOx and HC during lean misfire but give better fuel mileage. By efficiency I mean Stoichiometeric, to get the most out of the gas. Maximum CO2 production occurs at 14.7:1 (Stoichiometeric) with an exhaust output of approximately 15%, HC being less than 100ppm, CO less than 1% and NOx at up to 2000ppm depending on engine load. The cat is post engine combustion using the HC the engine didn't and the result is still higher CO2. The trick is to use it in the engine to move the vehicle not in the cat to heat the floorboard. But the end result is still higher CO2.

CO2 Carbon Dioxide- Highest result during perfect combustion- more efficient –causes global warming.

CO Carbon Monoxide- Highest result during rich conditions, lack of O2- less efficient- causes people to die.

I had a nice chart that I tried to post but I am a posting illiterate.
Did I address your question? Did I understand your question? Are my facts wrong? I’ve been known to do all three at the same time!
November 8th, 2007, 11:27 am
MaxOverdrive
 

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