so...what is obama's excuse this time?

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Published on January 4th, 2010, 7:29 am
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thesumofyourfears wrote:The "spending" the RR admin did was because of the large increase in revenue from the tax rate cuts that stimulated the economy that brought in revenue...simple concept.

:roll:
Of course. That's why the budget was balanced before he left office, right? :lol:

I seem to recall that even while he was campaigning, Reagan's mantra was "we'll cut taxes and increase spending at the same time, and assume that revenues will increase to cover the extra deficits. They never did. G.H.W. Bush correctly called it "Voodoo economics" while he was running against Reagan. It intentionally put the country's finances into a tailspin, because the Republican party wanted to make regulatory government impossible. Clinton started to pull the nation out of that tailspin, but Dubya did his level best to finish Reagan's job.

Now it will take about forever to undo that damage those people did.
January 4th, 2010, 7:29 am
 
thesumofyourfears wrote:
A Person wrote:Are you suggesting that because Christopher Frenze was employed by the Joint Economic Committee that he's not a Republican, right wing or partisan?


That is not the point and not relevant. Facts are facts.
I agree, which is why I have been producing data rather than opinion articles.

thesumofyourfears wrote:As far as his spending goes, no one is ignoring it. It just shows where your focus is at. I believe I have stated this before, but you seem to ignore it. The "spending" the RR admin did was because of the large increase in revenue from the tax rate cuts that stimulated the economy that brought in revenue...simple concept.
No you haven't stated it before. It's also false as SFI notes.
The traditional pattern of running large deficits only in times of war or economic downturns was broken during much of the 1980s. In 1982, partly in response to a recession, large tax cuts were enacted. However, these were accompanied by substantial increases in defense spending. Although reductions were made to nondefense spending, they were not sufficient to offset the impact on the deficit. As a result, deficits averaging $206 billion were incurred between 1983 and 1992. These unprecedented peacetime deficits increased debt held by the public from $789 billion in 1981 to $3.0 trillion (48.1% of GDP) in 1992. Budget of the U.S. Government, Fiscal Year 2006. P5


The chart I showed earlier demonstrates that. Clinton ran a budget surplus, the debt/GDP curve declined. Reagan/Bush/Bush ran deficits, the curve rises.

thesumofyourfears wrote:I am old enough to remember the economic boom of the RR years. Go ahead a drag up every little bit of dirt to discredit if you want. If don't get it now, you never will.
You call it 'dirt', I call it facts. Facts are indeed facts. The Reagan decade was not a boom by comparison with other decades, it just looked that way as a recovery from the recession.

Reaganomics caused the US debt to balloon and the unsustainable bubble from deficit spending has dominated recent decades.
brillig-deflate-national-debt.gif
Debt under Reagan
brillig-deflate-national-debt.gif (5.22 KiB) Viewed 47 times


The difficult task is maintaining a vibrant economy while reducing debt (remember Clinton). Obama has the unenviable task of stimulating the economy after the piggy bank had been raided. He has very few choices.

This 'dirt' is important because uninformed ideologues are trying to tell us that Reaganomics worked and that the GOP are the party of economic wisdom and responsible budget spending.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
January 4th, 2010, 11:47 am
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A Person
 
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A Person wrote:Obama has the unenviable task of stimulating the economy after the piggy bank had been raided. He has very few choices.

This 'dirt' is important because uninformed ideologues are trying to tell us that Reaganomics worked and that the GOP are the party of economic wisdom and responsible budget spending.


Uninformed ideologies,eh? You are really laughable now while you turn a blind eye to the out of control spending your godboy obama. His spending far excends anything. Hell, even China is warning dumbama about it. And you ponificate here how much you know. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: keep spinning, dude.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/budget/bg2178.cfm
The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 4th, 2010, 3:03 pm
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thesumofyourfears
 
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thesumofyourfears wrote: You are really laughable now while you turn a blind eye to the out of control spending your godboy obama. His spending far excends anything.


The difference is that government spending is neccessary to get out of a recession, once you are out then you need to use the bouyant economy to pay down the debt. Obama's job of stimulating the economy would be far easier if it didn't come after Reagan, Bush and Bush, all running large budget deficits. Clinton turned things around but Dubya killed that dead.

When the economy is stable then I will join in calling for budget deficit elimination and debt reduction. An end to the wars and avoiding any new ones wold be a good first start. I don't expect to get it from a a Reaganite revering Republican, another Bush or a quitting ignoramus. It will be easy for the opposition to take cheap shots because cutting expenditure and raising taxes is never popular. Bipartisan cooperation will be essential. Who knows it might happen, but not with the current crowd who cheer when America loses the Olympics, and think giving more tax cuts to the wealthy is the only answer

George Bush wrote:“Haven’t we already given money to rich people … Shouldn’t we be giving money to the middle?”
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
January 4th, 2010, 6:24 pm
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A Person wrote:The difference is that government spending is neccessary to get out of a recession,


...very bizarre logic...hmm...you are beginning to sound like ole Joe....
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/a ... rcID=51162

Keep it up A-Fraudulent drunk-like-ole-joe moonbat. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 5th, 2010, 3:33 pm
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thesumofyourfears
 
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Surprise, another right wing opinion piece from someone who thinks ignoring data and putting more LOLs in a post makes him look smart.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
January 5th, 2010, 3:44 pm
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A Person wrote:Surprise, another right wing opinion piece from someone who thinks ignoring data and putting more LOLs in a post makes him look smart.


No, no one is ignoring data... but you are. And until you accept facts, it is pointless. Here's your ole unlce joe in his own words. Opinion? With a bizarre statement you made, why should I or anyone else listen to you "facts"?


Opinion? Go ahead weasel.



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The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 5th, 2010, 9:58 pm
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thesumofyourfears
 
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You have presented no data to ignore, yet you ignore all the data and economic measures that clearly and unambiguously prove that the GOP in the form of Reagan, Bush and Bush were big spending deficit financed presidencies. Your only response is "Obama is worse" which is a lame response. I have no problem with Reagan using deficit spending to stimulate the economy after the early 80's recession. What was wrong was that he continued with deficit spending after the recovery and was followed by Bush, who while decrying the 'voodoo economics' of Reaganomics kept on increasing the deficit. Clinton got things on the right track and then came Bush II. Now we are again in recession and the economy is accustomed to high government spending - to stimulate this corpse will need a bigger jolt. Of course you would walk away and let it die.

The 'bizarre statement' is Keynesian economic theory which has worked in every recession whether employed by right wing conservatives, liberals or even Reagan. Sometimes it takes a war to force the necessary spending to break the deadlock. You knew that already but I suppose it's easier to post LOLs instead of formulate a reasoned argument.

YouFirst.gif


You have provided two references which show Biden using a rhetorical device called hypophora which consists of raising one or more questions and then proceeding to answer them, usually at some length. He's also using procatalepsis i.e. anticipating the objection.

What Joe is saying in effect is "Yes I know this sounds paradoxical, but we do have to spend to get out of bankruptcy ... here's why". Of course, the 'fair and balanced' folk at FOX only show the opening paradoxical question and not the explanation. No doubt at some stage the full video will surface and we'll hear Joe answer his own question. But not on FOX
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
January 5th, 2010, 10:54 pm
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thesumofyourfears wrote:
Questioner wrote:A Person, I never could figure out how people could call Reagan the "Great Communicator" when he said one thing and did another. Great Liar made more sense to me.

Under Ronald Reagan, the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class and poor the post Revolutionary War world has ever experienced took place. How could so many lower class people have respected him when he impoverished them so badly????? :?


Can you show proof of your premises. Sounds like rhetoric to me.


Spend a little time studying the annual Merrill Lynch World Wealth reports. The latest one is here: http://www.us.capgemini.com/worldwealthreport08/wwr_pressrelease.asp?ID=699
January 6th, 2010, 12:30 am
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A Person wrote:You have presented no data to ignore,


You have an apparent comprehension problem. The data I was referring to was your data about RR admin spending, which I nor any other conservatives ignore. What you are ignoring ( and I will not repeat myself again and it has been discussed to some degree or another in another thread a while back) is that RR had to work with a tax and spend dem0ncrack controlled Congress that overridden a number of his vetoes on spending bills and that his tax cuts did work and, by the way, the reason he was called the Great Communicator, was his ability to convince many dem0ncracks to go along with him and I remember well that there were a number of dem0ncracks that switched parties during his terms. And you continue to ignore dumbama's spending that far exceeds any previous admin. As for your drunk uncle joe, I see what you are trying to do, but it is a waste of your time and energy to spin it...of course that is what you do. It's quite plain to what he said. Of course, I don't expect you to agree, so keep on spinning, A-Fraud, one day you will wear out.
The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 6th, 2010, 12:37 pm
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thesumofyourfears
 
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So just to get this straight your story is:

Reagan was the 'Great Communicator' because of his ability to convince Democrats to go along with him
Yet nothing was his fault because the Democrats controlled Congress and didn't go along with him
And any success was entirely due to his policies and had nothing to do with any Democrats

TribbleLogic.jpg
Tribbles don't understand logic
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
January 6th, 2010, 3:06 pm
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A Person wrote:So just to get this straight your story is:

Reagan was the 'Great Communicator' because of his ability to convince Democrats to go along with him
Yet nothing was his fault because the Democrats controlled Congress and didn't go along with him
And any success was entirely due to his policies and had nothing to do with any Democrats


Yup! As I remember it, Tribbles just got their furry selves into everything and gummed up all the works.
Like the Republicans, they sound good on the surface, but if given free rein, they will destroy our world.
January 7th, 2010, 11:46 am
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Questioner wrote:
thesumofyourfears wrote:
Questioner wrote:A Person, I never could figure out how people could call Reagan the "Great Communicator" when he said one thing and did another. Great Liar made more sense to me.

Under Ronald Reagan, the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class and poor the post Revolutionary War world has ever experienced took place. How could so many lower class people have respected him when he impoverished them so badly????? :?


Can you show proof of your premises. Sounds like rhetoric to me.


Spend a little time studying the annual Merrill Lynch World Wealth reports. The latest one is here: http://www.us.capgemini.com/worldwealthreport08/wwr_pressrelease.asp?ID=699


The last time I checked, there is nothing wrong or illegal about being a millionaire except in the world of left loons it is class envy. Those mean ole rich people risk a lot of capital for investment in the business world that generates overall economic growth...a simple concept that you seem to be difficult for you to comprehend. How do you conclude that RR "inpoverished them so badly"?
Last edited by thesumofyourfears on January 8th, 2010, 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 8th, 2010, 9:14 am
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thesumofyourfears
 
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A Person wrote:So just to get this straight your story is:

Reagan was the 'Great Communicator' because of his ability to convince Democrats to go along with him
Yet nothing was his fault because the Democrats controlled Congress and didn't go along with him
And any success was entirely due to his policies and had nothing to do with any Democrats

TribbleLogic.jpg


I never said ALL of the them went along with RR, now did I? Dem0ncracks are still dem0cracks. It does not suggest that they voted with him ALL the time for ALL issues.
The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 8th, 2010, 9:17 am
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thesumofyourfears
 
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thesumofyourfears wrote:The last time I checked, there is nothing wrong or illegal about being a millionaire except in the world of left loons it is class envy. Those mean ole rich people risk a lot of capital for investment in the business world that generates overall economic growth...a simple concept that you seem to be difficult for you to comprehend. How do you conclude that RR "inpoverished them so badly"?

Can any adult really be so naive?
January 9th, 2010, 6:57 pm
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I suspect it's 'cargo cult' politics. He thinks that if he emulates rich people he will become rich himself.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
January 9th, 2010, 7:05 pm
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Questioner wrote:
thesumofyourfears wrote:The last time I checked, there is nothing wrong or illegal about being a millionaire except in the world of left loons it is class envy. Those mean ole rich people risk a lot of capital for investment in the business world that generates overall economic growth...a simple concept that you seem to be difficult for you to comprehend. How do you conclude that RR "inpoverished them so badly"?

Can any adult really be so naive?


uh huh...I see...and you call yourself a professor? :lol:
The policy of my country is, to leave their citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits. --Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.
Private enterprise... manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal. --Thomas Jefferson: 6th Ann. Message, 1806
January 9th, 2010, 10:08 pm
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