Batman massacre: same lesson as before?

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

Been reading about this guy that shot up the theater on Colorado this morning. He very likely will turn out to be yet another case of psychotic mass murderer that wants to die and take as many with him as possible, rather similar to the nut that shot up VA Tech some years ago.

In this story, he seems determined to make the state of Colorado pay as much as possible to process his crimes in the courts, and will very likely relish all the media attention he'll get until he's sentenced... maybe for the rest of his life.

It's very interesting to me that this report says that his mother replied immediately that reporters had the right family. She knew that her son was mentally cracked. I'd like to know that part of the story: did they know he was slipping off the rails, but couldn't bear to send this guy to a mental health professional for evaluation and treatment? Did they not have sufficient insurance to handle such a problem? THAT will be interesting to see if media follow up on it.

As of this time, the police haven't gotten into the fellow's apartment, saying that it looks like it's booby trapped with enough explosives to take out the whole block. Myself, I'm expecting that it's all a fake. But naturally, they can't take a chance, and will just have to treat it as real until they can prove otherwise.

I'm also curious about the mental health aspect of this at the University's end. The fellow only recently withdrew from his studies for his doctorate. I wonder if the people working in his lab had any concerns about his mental stability. If they did, what was THEIR take on it all? I wonder if Colorado will turn out to have lived with the exact same problems that VA Tech did... and failed once again to catch a catchable mass murderer before he got to this awful end game?

The next month or so will be MOST interesting.

[Liv]

I'm telling you, the smarter you get- the crazier you become.

Especially when you realize how crazy and chaotic this world really is.

Having read first hand reports in an academic setting about the Columbine Shootings, you can't help but have sympathy for the shooters, despite the horrendous horrible deeds they did.

Let's face it... we live in "Wonderland", and those of capable of seeing it are at odds with ourselves at not going completely mad. It's only to be expected that some people can't.

This is a crazy, irrational world... and shootings are the result of mankind's inability to come to terms with it.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

I saw a VERY interesting comment attached to one of the many stories out there on Yahoo. Some nut asked "Why is it that mass murderers seem to always be politically liberal?"

I've scanned the stories on this guy, even read what Fox "News" has had to say about him... not a single mention of his polirtical views so far. Wonder if some nut cases have created a wikipedia page and made it look like he was a big fan of Obama?

[Liv]

He probably was liberal. It's the freaking conservatives who drive us to cracking.

[A Person]

The right wingnut websites are all convinced that if only some of the moviegoers were armed, the killer would have been gunned down. The thought of half a dozen scared people, half blind with tear gas and shooting in the dark would result in a better outcome is a bit worrisome.

but those guys are convinced this is a ploy by liebruls to take away their 2nd amendment rights to carry guns everywhere - some clown on moonbattery was sure it was a 'false flag' attack by a liberal gun control nut to spur a repeal of the 2nd amendment.

[ssshadow]

The facts show that the persons often committing these crimes are conservatives not liberals. I dont know how someone can say that. The Federal Builing was bombed by an ultra conservative not a liberal. These shootings were often done by Neo Nazi conservatives that believed strongly in the second amendment and that went over the edge in their beliefs. I can't remember any liberals that did these types of crimes in modern America although there are liberals in other countries that have become violent.

I dont mind someone owning a gun there are plenty of police officers, attorneys, bankers, or persons living in Montana that may need one for some litigitmate purpose. But even if someone wanted a gun for self defense it would have been difficult or impossible to use or justify in a crowded theater without endangering bystanders. This person chose a place and time that he could very effectively massacre/butcher a large crowd. It seems that he would have used a bomb just as effectively if he had not used a gun. We need to use our current laws that are supposed to keep weapons out of the hands of mentally unstable individuals and felons. It doesnt seem to be working.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

My point is that I don't think there's any necessary connection between political thought and the mental illness that leads to mass murder. What I see people doing is saying "Look at the evil those (insert your preferred political enemys' stance here) can do!"

I truly don't care what this person's politics were before he decided to try and kill as many unsuspecting, innocent people as he could. Whatever his pathology turns out to have been, he obviously left the realm of civilized, social behavior far behind in favor of the ultimate in anti-social insanity... I seriously doubt that any of that thought process involved "liberal" or "conservative" politics.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

We need to use our current laws that are supposed to keep weapons out of the hands of mentally unstable individuals and felons. It doesnt seem to be working.

Well, as to this idea, it appears so far that this particular person managed to keep his mental instability well enough hidden that he didn't run afoul of any gun purchasing laws, regardless of how well they may have been crafted to keep nuts from buying them. Maybe once investigators get more info from his computers and find more people he associated with, they'll discover some signs of "red flags" that people seem to always ignore. For now, he looks like a real puzzle.

[A Person]

The insanity is that this person was able to legally buy an AR15 assault rifle, 100 round drum magazine and 6000 rounds of ammunition (online). No to mention the two .40-caliber Glock handguns and a 12-gauge Remington Model 870 pump shotgun

Just a good upstanding citizen.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

All valid purchases for a casual hunter of quail, yes? And don't forget the tear gas and body armor... bloody quail will DROP you if you don't gear up correctly.

[Liv]

Since I'm not a gun freak, I wonder what is the most insane gun I could legally purchase????

I mean, though my 4-h marksmanship skills were awesome, I'm not someone who should own a gun. I know nothing about them.

What I really want is a over the should missile launcher. Doubt that's legal.

[A Person]

All valid purchases for a casual hunter of quail, yes?

The 2nd amendment doesn't confer the right to hunt - nor for 'self defense' (by shooting unarmed black teens), it confers the right to bear arms in a well regulated militia.

Since I'm not a gun freak, I wonder what is the most insane gun I could legally purchase????

An AR15 with a 100 round magazine comes close, but for my money the winner is the .50 cal anti-materiel rifle 'materiel' is a euphemism for military equipment such as vehicles, aircraft and watercraft

Anti Materiel Rifle (AMR) is a bolt-action .50 caliber rifle that is designed for use against military equipment (or "materiel" in military language). The AMR is similar in design principle to that of a sniper rifle, delivering a high power shot at long distances with great accuracy, although chambered in a larger caliber for hardened targets.

(Via...

For a mere $12,000 you too can take out a Boeing_VC-25 or Prevost bus from a mile away. Essential for keeping coons down.

If you haven't read John Brunners "The Jagged Orbit" - written in 1969 you should. It is remarkably prescient (along with several of his books - "Shockwave Rider", "The sheep look up" and "Stand on Zanzibar")

The Gottschalks are driving and they're out of control.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

If you haven't read John Brunners "The Jagged Orbit" - written in 1969 you should. It is remarkably prescient (along with several of his books - "Shockwave Rider", "The sheep look up" and "Stand on Zanzibar")

The Gottschalks are driving and they're out of control.

I might have to try "Stand" again. I tried reading it when I was a teenager, and couldn't understand a bit of it. I'm guessing that now, after having thoroughly enjoyed "Slaughterhouse Five," I'd have a far different reaction to it.

[A Person]

Denver Post

Them quails are vicious

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

And of course... gun sales are spiking in Colorado in the aftermath of the shootings. And of course, there's the usual round of hysterical, poorly-thought-out comments from around the blogsphere... Christian preachers telling the families of the victims that those who died are going to Hell... gun nuts asking why there weren't some people in that theater packing heat, to take this bad guy down the instant he opened fire.

Yeah, I know I'D feel far safer knowing that nervous people who just purchased a gun are sitting in a theater with me, watching a movie filled with gun violence scenes, determined to stop another gun-wielding wacko in body armor from hurting him and his loved ones.


Might be safer to just wait for the DVD to be released...

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

shootmain_3p1.jpg

Them quails are vicious

Nice... he bought his weapons from Gander Mountain? We have one of those out here near the mall. I could go buy a .40 cal GLOCK from those guys?

I know there's a Bass Pro shop near the Interstate on the way from Greensboro to Charlotte.

Wonder where he got the armor and tear gas? Seriously, if people decide to start taking concealed weapons to the theater, I might decide to invest in armor and gas masks myself...

[A Person]

The prevailing right wing nut opinion is that the audience were pussies for not taking the gunman down. Secondly that the fault lies in pussy gun control that prevented them from being armed.

Wonkette

This is ridiculous for several reasons:

The idea that a typical pistol would have any effect on that armor is silly. A physical assault would also be unlikely to achieve much.

Secondly, imagine yourself in the dark, your eyes streaming from the tear gas. You draw your weapon and through the smoke you see someone pointing a gun at you. You shoot. You realize that you just shot another audience member - then someone shoots you - because you just shot someone.

It's not far fetched - in the Gifford shooting, an armed bystander nearly shot the wrong man

"I came out of that store, I clicked the safety off, and I was ready," he (Joe Zamudio) explained on Fox and Friends. "I had my hand on my gun. I had it in my jacket pocket here. And I came around the corner like this." Zamudio demonstrated how his shooting hand was wrapped around the weapon, poised to draw and fire. As he rounded the corner, he saw a man holding a gun. "And that's who I at first thought was the shooter," Zamudio recalled. "I told him to 'Drop it, drop it!' "
But the man with the gun wasn't the shooter. He had wrested the gun away from the shooter.

"Had you shot that guy, it would have been a big, fat mess," the interviewer pointed out.

Zamudio agreed:

"I was very lucky. Honestly, it was a matter of seconds. Two, maybe three seconds between when I came through the doorway and when I was laying on top of [the real shooter], holding him down. So, I mean, in that short amount of time I made a lot of really big decisions really fast. … I was really lucky.

More ...

And that was in bright daylight, no tear gas and no body armor.

[Liv]

CNN is reporting that guns sales have shot (no pun) through the roof in CO. Apparently in expectation of new gun restrictions. Let's hope there are.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

As I pointed out earlier in the thread, I'm concerned that the gun sales might mean people are thinking of starting to pack heat when they take their little darlings to watch "My Little Pony."

I have said it often enough: when people panic, they make the worst decisions EVER. I've learned that truth through years of bitter experience personally. Which is why I think it's completely horrible the way news media and pundits in this country FEED public panic in these situations, instead of doing what should be in the best interest, long term: calming people the f-ck down.

[Liv]

Oooh I like the AR15, and only $800. Cool. Only one problem, what could I shoot with it?

Seems a bit much for my neighbor's dog. That is legal if it comes on my property isn't it?

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

This, I do not get: some of the victims of the shooting are already filing lawsuits -- against the theater.

Yeah. They say that the theater should have had the exit this creep used secured, set up with alarms, and/or guarded.

Fer real? Exit doors in most theaters I ever go to are secured as much as the law requires, with no exterior handles, allowing patrons to exit through doors that may be closer to their cars. Because they are secured only in the sense that the doors can't be accessed by non-paying movie crashers, which is normal business practice, where's the fault by the company?

Sure, they could have had an employee set at each of these exits, watching for someone to open the door to let unapproved people in... but that would be a rather tough waste of manpower for most any establishment geared for access to large crowds.

It seems to me that trying to establish blame to the theater is a bad move. Sure, the industry will most likely move to change their standard practices, allowing back doors to only be used in emergencies. But to try and force them to do this at once seems rather counter-productive.

[Liv]

Second hand TSA scanners will be installed.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

Another lesson from this even looks hauntingly familiar: this guy was under psychiatric care, and his shrink thought he could pose a threat to himself and others.... but no one did anything.

The lady did what she could, apparently, alerting a campus "threat assessment team." I'm guessing that this sort of thing was created in the wake of the massacre at Va Tech. And this team could possibly have done SOMETHING to put this guy away, in a nice padded room or whatever it is they do with psychotic people these days... but he officially withdrew from school, and the team "had no control over him."

Well there's your problem. A threat of this sort from anyone that is detected isn't isolated. If a school or church or company has in its organization someone who is mentally unstable, the danger that person poses isn't directed EXCLUSIVELY at that group. Why did the University of Colorado not notify local authorities that they had a situation developing? Do their rules for action involve assuming that a nut will ONLY attack the school when he finally goes over the line of no return?

I gotta say, THAT sounds spectacularly obtuse.

[Liv]

Health privacy laws.... and those are a good thing...

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

Those laws, and the ethical underpinnings that go with them, have exceptions for public welfare. A shrink that learns his patient is a child rapist, or a mass murderer... That sort of thing can't be ignored.