Why atheists don't turn to religion when facing disaster

Why atheists don't turn to religion when facing disaster

by SouthernFriedInfidel | Published on February 3rd, 2010, 8:04 am | Religion

It's been said "There are no atheists in foxholes." Which is both an insulting assumption and demonstrably untrue, by the way. But here is an essay by one atheist who thought the notion needed a more rigorous unpacking.

Enjoy -- or read and learn. Whichever is appropriate.

I've got BHL's response:

They'll be begging for God when the get to hell!!!

All atheist I believe, deep down when there in need or when times are rough, turn to God. They may not believe the concept of him but whats gonna happen when you pass away? Who do you turn to when your in dyer need? You have to turn to him, why wouldn't you?

Guest wrote:All atheist I believe, deep down when there in need or when times are rough, turn to God. They may not believe the concept of him but whats gonna happen when you pass away? Who do you turn to when your in dyer need? You have to turn to him, why wouldn't you?

Obviously, you failed to take my advice and READ THE ARTICLE I PROVIDED in my first post. You refuse to learn anything about how others think -- why would you expect others to bother to listen to you?

I think most people want their mommy when facing certain doom....

the question is why don't we ask for daddy?

'Cause Mom was a bitch* and if I'm gonna die I want her here with me?

*Any statements made here do not necessarily reflect the views of the author and may be made entirely for comedic purposes

I would venture a guess that perhaps, when on my deathbed, emotion may overcome fear, and I will question my atheism, asking myself, "Oh (expletive)! What if I'm wrong?"

Of course, I would assume that believers, when on their deathbed, emotion may overcome fear, and they will question their beliefs, asking themselves, "Oh (expletive)! What if I'm wrong?"

Greengitters wrote:I would venture a guess that perhaps, when on my deathbed, emotion may overcome fear, and I will question my atheism, asking myself, "Oh (expletive)! What if I'm wrong?"

Of course, I would assume that believers, when on their deathbed, emotion may overcome fear, and they will question their beliefs, asking themselves, "Oh (expletive)! What if I'm wrong?"

I suspect this is probably the most accurate statement of all. I've been in a couple of situations where I thought that this might be "my time" and my thoughts did not turn to God at all. My first thought was "Okay. This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

Jamy wrote:This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

The problem is you don't have the ability to save yourself. Unless the Holy Spirit convicts your heart then it just isn't possible. And you don't know when or how ofter the Holy Spirit will do this.

As usual you are equivocating on the meaning of words. We are talking about 'saving yourself' i.e. trying to stay alive, you are talking about what you think happens after you are dead.

If the choice is between living on this fallen earth, full of sin and depravity, where your neighbour might even be gay - and being wafted to eternal paradise - why would you even try to 'save' your life?

A religious person who prays for their life to be 'saved' is demonstrating that they have no faith in what they preach.

A Person wrote:As usual you are equivocating on the meaning of words. We are talking about 'saving yourself' i.e. trying to stay alive, you are talking about what you think happens after you are dead.

If the choice is between living on this fallen earth, full of sin and depravity, where your neighbour might even be gay - and being wafted to eternal paradise - why would you even try to 'save' your life?

A religious person who prays for their life to be 'saved' is demonstrating that they have no faith in what they preach.

That's not the way I read it AP. And it isn't "We" it is "Jamy"'s post I am responding to.

A Person wrote:If the choice is between living on this fallen earth, full of sin and depravity, where your neighbour might even be gay - and being wafted to eternal paradise - why would you even try to 'save' your life?

A religious person who prays for their life to be 'saved' is demonstrating that they have no faith in what they preach.

You purposely misunderstand scripture and Christians as well AP. Scripture commands us to go out into the world as a light for Christ and to spread the good news. Christians should WANT to do this.

Also, it should be obvious (but apparently isn't to you) that a saved person has a great burden for friends and loved ones that may not know Christ as Lord and Savior. I have family and close friends that I still wish to witness for and I hope that God can use me (or someone else) to help them undertand the gospels and convict their hearts. For me to leave this world, even though I know where I'm going, would be gut wrenching for me right now. I wish to do more for the Christ that I love.

Of course you'll ask the same question a few months from now forgetting the answer I've just given you. :roll:

If you're trying to tell me that your concern when you see a truck appraching head-on is that there are still atheists to be converted, then I find that difficult to believe.

Please don't hang around on my behalf.

A Person wrote:If you're trying to tell me that your concern when you see a truck appraching head-on is that there are still atheists to be converted, then I find that difficult to believe.

Please don't hang around on my behalf.

I'm not. You've already been presented the gospel. Your blood isn't on my hands.

So we both agree that your stated reason is false. No one's blood is on your hands and you really don't care about the afterlife of the unsaved. In fact many of your posts witness to your smugness in your own salvation and satisfaction that atheists are going to get theirs in the afterlife

You claim to love Jesus more than anything - but don't want to actually meet Him. When He sends a personal invitation to meet him in paradise you pray for a deferment because you (quite rightly IMO) love your family more.

Presumably you do not trust that your family is saved and cannot imagine enjoying Heaven while you listen to their suffering an eternity of torture in Hell.

I think this is quite rational. Your family is real and I'm sure you love them (as I do mine). If my children were being tortured I couldn't imagine having a moment of peace. I also couldn't imagine loving the person responsible for the torture (or who having the ability to stop it refused for ANY reason - let alone his vanity). Given the choice of hanging around with that monster, I'd rather be with my kids.

A Person wrote:So we both agree that your stated reason is false. No one's blood is on your hands and you really don't care about the afterlife of the unsaved. In fact many of your posts witness to your smugness in your own salvation and satisfaction that atheists are going to get theirs in the afterlife

You claim to love Jesus more than anything - but don't want to actually meet Him. When He sends a personal invitation to meet him in paradise you pray for a deferment because you (quite rightly IMO) love your family more.

Presumably you do not trust that your family is saved and cannot imagine enjoying Heaven while you listen to their suffering an eternity of torture in Hell.

I think this is quite rational. Your family is real and I'm sure you love them (as I do mine). If my children were being tortured I couldn't imagine having a moment of peace. I also couldn't imagine loving the person responsible for the torture (or who having the ability to stop it refused for ANY reason - let alone his vanity). Given the choice of hanging around with that monster, I'd rather be with my kids.

Do you realize how arrogant you sound? The more you type the more you show utter ignorance of the subject matter. Your assumptions and conclusions take a tangent that no person of any intelligence could follow and make any rational sense.

You'll suffer in hell for eternity and I hope that will won't have your kids for company. When you are in hell I'd gamble that you'll remember this conversation. And no, I take no joy in my knowledge of this. Your hate for God and anyone that is for God will only serve to lead anyone around you that you care about down a path to eternal separation from God. Hell.

A Person wrote:If you're trying to tell me that your concern when you see a truck appraching head-on is that there are still atheists to be converted, then I find that difficult to believe.

It's as unbelievable as all the other crazy BS he spews on the subject. All this crap about "I'll be happy to go when God decides it's my time" is obviously unbelievable, because it would be natural to assume that when mortal danger occurs, that's a great indicator that God has made that decision. Yet I can imagine no Christian who would not try to swerve to avoid a truck, or order a doctor to try every possible treatment to cure the fatal condition.

Actions speak louder than words, and nearly all Christian actions speak of a fear of death that they always deny is there.

BecauseHeLives wrote:
Jamy wrote:This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

The problem is you don't have the ability to save yourself. Unless the Holy Spirit convicts your heart then it just isn't possible. And you don't know when or how ofter the Holy Spirit will do this.

I get that. But it doesn't change the fact that my first or second impulse was not to pray.

PS: and yes, by "save myself" I was meaning to survive the situation, not go to Jesus for saving.

Jamy wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:
Jamy wrote:This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

The problem is you don't have the ability to save yourself. Unless the Holy Spirit convicts your heart then it just isn't possible. And you don't know when or how ofter the Holy Spirit will do this.

I get that. But it doesn't change the fact that my first or second impulse was not to pray.

PS: and yes, by "save myself" I was meaning to survive the situation, not go to Jesus for saving.

Oh and one other thing. I consider the fact that I didn't die instantly as God's intervention and that the rest of my survival was up to me. He gave me the tools to do it, after all, may as well put them to use. Sitting there and praying while the car burned around me would have just been stupid. Sometimes, you gotta help yourself. That's why got gave us common sense and opposable thumbs.

During a great flood there was a man standing in front of his house. He prayed long and hard for God to reach out and save him. Just as he was losing faith a boat arrived and offered help. He only replied, "I’m waiting for God to save me."

Well eventually the flood waters rose so he climbed to the roof and continued to wait for the hand of God to lift him from peril. Just as he was losing faith another boat arrived to offer help. He thought for a second and replied "I’m waiting for God to save me."

So he waited as the flood waters rose to his waste. In the deepest of despair he started to pray. As he prayed a helicopter arrived to save him. Without batting an eye he shooed them away saying "I’m waiting for God to save me."

Finally the man drowned and went to heaven. Standing in front of God he asked, “God did you forsake me?” God shook his head and asked, “Didn’t you get the two boats and the helicopter I sent?”

Well.....that's MY take on it anyway.

Jamy wrote:
I suspect this is probably the most accurate statement of all. I've been in a couple of situations where I thought that this might be "my time" and my thoughts did not turn to God at all. My first thought was "Okay. This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

Yes exactly. Quoted for truth. I've been in the very same situation and (as a non-believer) not once did god or religion enter my mind.

Sanjuro wrote: I've been in the very same situation and (as a non-believer) not once did god or religion enter my mind.

I think that this is an important point that religious people ought to learn. Of course it doesn't have any bearing on the question of whether God exists, but it does shed light on a favorite claim of religious people. That "deep down, everyone believes in God in some way." That simply isn't true, and the sooner such people who believe this get that fact understood, the sooner they can start figuring out how to relate to such folks as don't have that belief.

I know that some would set a goal of trying to "correct the error." Which would lead to bad results, I think. I know it did when I tried to change others' minds on their beliefs regarding God... from both sides.

But knowing this CAN be used to help build better relationships, and that could be worthwhile. In the case of finding someone worth having as a friend or lover.

No species could be a successful reproducer unless it had a strong survival instinct. Sometimes we see behaviours that seem to contradict that where a previously successful behaviour has become dangerous in a modern environment. Moose spring to mind (and through the windshield). Their strategy of facing a danger and running towards it and trampling on it works very well - until cars came along. Ditto skunks, porcupines, hedgehogs etc.

When immediate danger (like an oncoming car) threatens adrenaline kicks in and the 'fight or flight' response is automatic. Not even the most devout evangelist would stop for prayer

The situation is somewhat different when the danger is less immediate but still real and present. Jamy's flood parable for example. In those circumstances the religious will almost certainly take time to pray - and while the parable is funny because even the religious think the man dumb for refusing help, it happens all the time with medicine, people refuse medical help because it contravenes some part of scripture. In fact almost all scripture tells of the power of faith healing - yet Nicodemus took antiseptics and healing herbs to Jesus in the tomb.

The flood parable is irritating because it is a triumph of muddy thinking and special pleading. God was responsible for the boats nd helicopter (built and operated by men) but not responsible for the flood? Over 1800 people died from Katrina, the majority were faithful Christian believers, most who would have had plenty of time to pray and undoubtedly did. Yet we must attribute the successes of the rescue efforts to God and the failures to man? What did the elderly people, unable to climb to their roofs do to displease God? What of the hundreds of children who would have loved to have BHL's choice of telling Jesus to go away and come back some other time when it's more convenient?

The best that can be said for prayer is that it allows the person to relax, dissipate the adrenaline, reduce the panic and start to think about the problem rationally rather than reacting. Reacting can good for an immediate threat, thinking is good for a prolonged one.

But prayer is by no means the best approach - training and preparedness is far superior. Many of my activities (climbing, caving and scuba diving) involve putting myself in potentially dangerous situations where normal reactions must be controlled and rational thought, reinforced by rigorous training is the only safe thing. In a diving emergency - as when my dive buddy kicked my mask off and respirator out - my immediate reaction to swim for the surface must be suppressed in favour of relaxing, reaching for the tank top, tracing the hose and recovering the valve, purging it and breathing again. Only then looking for my mask and dealing with my 'buddy'.

Oh and the irony of BHL declaring me arrogant is not lost. I'm not the one claiming that a supreme being created hudreds of billions of galaxies, each containing hudreds of billions of stars just so that, on one unremarkable planet circling an unremarkable star in an unremarkable galaxy, He can listen to an ape descendant tell Him how wonderful He is and arrange a rescue boat when the weather turns bad.

Sanjuro wrote:
Jamy wrote:
I suspect this is probably the most accurate statement of all. I've been in a couple of situations where I thought that this might be "my time" and my thoughts did not turn to God at all. My first thought was "Okay. This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

Yes exactly. Quoted for truth. I've been in the very same situation and (as a non-believer) not once did god or religion enter my mind.

If that is the case then God has hardened your heart just like He did the Pharaoh's heart.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/ ... araoh.html

BecauseHeLives wrote:
Sanjuro wrote:
Jamy wrote:
I suspect this is probably the most accurate statement of all. I've been in a couple of situations where I thought that this might be "my time" and my thoughts did not turn to God at all. My first thought was "Okay. This is it...I'm gonna die. This is how it ends for me." and then my next thought, when I didn't die a second after I had the first thought was "Hmmm...I'm not dead...maybe I can still save myself."

Yes exactly. Quoted for truth. I've been in the very same situation and (as a non-believer) not once did god or religion enter my mind.

If that is the case then God has hardened your heart just like He did the Pharaoh's heart.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aiia/ ... araoh.html

That's simply not the case and quite delusional.

See Sanjuro, it's not your fault - God wants you to burn in Hell for eternity so He hardened your heart. God loves you, but His furnace needs fuel.