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Another Christian Extremist Stopped

by Sanjuro | Published on September 14th, 2010, 11:48 am | Religion
Seems another Christian extremist was charged this week before their insanity could reach its "final solution". I dont recall seeing it here, so here ya go...

An FBI agent said in court documents last week that Moose was arrested after he collaborated with a confidential informant to help plan the bombing of a North Carolina abortion clinic.

The FBI affidavit says the 26-year-old posted instructions on his Facebook page about how to make an explosive.



http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/09/13/678850/nc-man-charged-in-abortion-clinic.html

More:

On Friday, Sept. 4, the confidential source met Moose at the TGI Fridays restaurant at Concord Mills, the affidavit says. There, in a conversation recorded by the FBI, Moose described several bombs the source could make in order to destroy the abortion clinic his wife’s friend was planning to use.

Moose also gave the source advice on how to conduct surveillance. He told the source to drink several beers and stagger around the clinic pretending to be drunk. If authorities confronted him, Moose explained, the man could tell them he was just looking for a place to urinate.

Finally, on Sept. 5, the confidential source called Moose again and said he had obtained the chemicals to make the explosive TATP. Moose talked him through the process of making the explosive and answered his questions, the affidavit says.

VIa

Justin Carl Moose, self proclaimed the Christian counterpart of Osama bin Laden wrote:“The Death Care Bill passed last night,” he wrote when Obama’s health care plan was approved in March. “Keep your phone and rifle close and wait.”

“There are few problems in life that can’t be solved with the proper application of high explosives ” Moose wrote two months later.

“If a mosque is built on ground zero, it will be removed. Oklahoma City style. Tim’s not the only man out there that knows how to do it,” the affidavit says he wrote in July, in a reference to Timothy McVeigh, who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City.


I wish I had more to say about this, but really whats the point? People will continue to claim the extremist right wing rhetoric being spewed by the Tea Party, Fox News, right wing Christianity, and punditry will not harm anyone, when it is plainly obvious it will. This is exactly what happens when you push anti-intellectualism and anti-science over superstitions and fears.


*Edit.... more:


Does his religion matter?
It wouldn't, if he were a Christian instead of a "Christianist" extremist, says Andrew Sullivan in The Atlantic. But his "disturbing fusion of nationalist Christianity and loathing of Obama" is part of a growing "conflation of Obama with Islam and then a conflation of Islam with Jihadist terror," and that matters immensely. Imagine how the media would cover a non-Christian self-professed religious "extremist, radical, fundamentalist... 'freedom fighter'" who threatened to murder women, says Jasmine Sawarda in Associated Content. "This Muslim writer is thankful for two things: Moose was unable to complete his alleged terrorist plans, and Moose is not a Muslim."

Was Moose really all that dangerous?
The FBI didn't present any evidence that Moose had carried out any attacks himself, and he has no criminal record. But in a Facebook message obtained by the FBI, Moose told an associate, "I have learned a lot from the Muslim terrorists and have no problem using their tactics." Also, his affiliation with the Army of God worries some observers. "The Army of God really is the Christian version of the Taliban," says Ed Brayton at ScienceBlogs, and given its real history of violence, it's "not a hypothetical threat."

Is he still dangerous?
From what he told the feds, Moose thinks he is. He told the FBI informant that he's set up at least one "phantom cell" of the Army of God, adding, "This is not my first rodeo." Also, he posted this note on Facebook Aug. 23: "To all the feds watching me: You can't stop what is in motion. Even if you bring me in, my men will continue their mission. Furthermore, I will not go peacefully. Do you really want another Waco?


Read more here:
Via


 
 
He appears to an extremist but certainly not a Christian. Why are atheists so readily able to accept somebody is a Christian simply because they say they are? There is clearly a bias here because yo wouldn't take face value for any other claims from people. A police officer? A lawyer? A doctor? A Teacher?

Perhaps some people just see what they ant to see if it seemingly helps to support a flawed world view.
User avatar
BecauseHeLives
 
Well thank goodness the FBI is paying attention to non-Muslim terrorists as well as to the "normal" ones. Hopefully, they'll keep catching these wackos before they kill.
User avatar
SouthernFriedInfidel
 
BecauseHeLives wrote:He appears to an extremist but certainly not a Christian. Why are atheists so readily able to accept somebody is a Christian simply because they say they are? There is clearly a bias here because yo wouldn't take face value for any other claims from people. A police officer? A lawyer? A doctor? A Teacher?

Perhaps some people just see what they ant to see if it seemingly helps to support a flawed world view.


He says hes a Christian. You say you're a Christian. I guess I can now call you out. ;)
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:Well thank goodness the FBI is paying attention to non-Muslim terrorists as well as to the "normal" ones. Hopefully, they'll keep catching these wackos before they kill.



Yeah, apparently if the clinic hadn't been alert to it, they might not have known.
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
Sanjuro wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:He appears to an extremist but certainly not a Christian. Why are atheists so readily able to accept somebody is a Christian simply because they say they are? There is clearly a bias here because yo wouldn't take face value for any other claims from people. A police officer? A lawyer? A doctor? A Teacher?

Perhaps some people just see what they ant to see if it seemingly helps to support a flawed world view.


He says hes a Christian. You say you're a Christian. I guess I can now call you out. ;)


Only if you can tell me what your definition of a Christian is. Can you?
User avatar
BecauseHeLives
 
BHL isn't a Christian. He doesn't follow Jesus' teachings. On the other hand he displays the characteristics common to people who claim to be Christian.
User avatar
A Person
 
I was going to say: What criteria should we use when somebody claims to be a Christian? We've been over THAT territory enough, I think. Every tiny variation of the Christian religion teaches that THEY are "true" and all others are either outright false or at least suspect. So it has been from the beginning. So it shall ever be.
User avatar
SouthernFriedInfidel
 
BecauseHeLives wrote:
Sanjuro wrote:
He says hes a Christian. You say you're a Christian. I guess I can now call you out. ;)


Only if you can tell me what your definition of a Christian is. Can you?


Thats not my place. But you as a self proclaimed Christian can't simply disavow someone because they do something you don't agree with ...and then successfully defend your label as such because someone could just as easily do it to you when we are talking about these loose concepts.

However.. if someone did say you weren't a Christian, I'm sure regardless of that, deep down you'd know. YOU'D know you were a good Christian despite what they said. Right? Just as I am sure this Justin Moose fellow feels about himself no matter what you say. Sure he was arrested, but don't most of these extreme right wing Christians have some sort of persecution complex anyway? If anything this arrest, public criticism, and public denouncement by members of his own faith (like yourself) will probably bolster is insanity.
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:I was going to say: What criteria should we use when somebody claims to be a Christian? We've been over THAT territory enough, I think. Every tiny variation of the Christian religion teaches that THEY are "true" and all others are either outright false or at least suspect. So it has been from the beginning. So it shall ever be.


The issue is that you people believe that every Christian can never fail. That isn't possible. I've made many mistakes and I don't purposely live in sin. It doesn't mean I don't try to follow Christ with the best of my ability.
User avatar
BecauseHeLives
 
BecauseHeLives wrote:
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:I was going to say: What criteria should we use when somebody claims to be a Christian? We've been over THAT territory enough, I think. Every tiny variation of the Christian religion teaches that THEY are "true" and all others are either outright false or at least suspect. So it has been from the beginning. So it shall ever be.


The issue is that you people believe that every Christian can never fail. That isn't possible. I've made many mistakes and I don't purposely live in sin. It doesn't mean I don't try to follow Christ with the best of my ability.



Well this Christian thankfully failed.
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
Sanjuro wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:
Sanjuro wrote:
He says hes a Christian. You say you're a Christian. I guess I can now call you out. ;)


Only if you can tell me what your definition of a Christian is. Can you?


Thats not my place. But you as a self proclaimed Christian can't simply disavow someone because they do something you don't agree with ...and then successfully defend your label as such because someone could just as easily do it to you when we are talking about these loose concepts.

However.. if someone did say you weren't a Christian, I'm sure regardless of that, deep down you'd know. YOU'D know you were a good Christian despite what they said. Right? Just as I am sure this Justin Moose fellow feels about himself no matter what you say. Sure he was arrested, but don't most of these extreme right wing Christians have some sort of persecution complex anyway? If anything this arrest, public criticism, and public denouncement by members of his own faith (like yourself) will probably bolster is insanity.



Plenty of non-believers bomb abortion clinics as well.
User avatar
BecauseHeLives
 
BecauseHeLives wrote:
Plenty of non-believers bomb abortion clinics as well.


Citation?
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
I added this to the main post. Certainly some interesting points:


Does his religion matter?
It wouldn't, if he were a Christian instead of a "Christianist" extremist, says Andrew Sullivan in The Atlantic. But his "disturbing fusion of nationalist Christianity and loathing of Obama" is part of a growing "conflation of Obama with Islam and then a conflation of Islam with Jihadist terror," and that matters immensely. Imagine how the media would cover a non-Christian self-professed religious "extremist, radical, fundamentalist... 'freedom fighter'" who threatened to murder women, says Jasmine Sawarda in Associated Content. "This Muslim writer is thankful for two things: Moose was unable to complete his alleged terrorist plans, and Moose is not a Muslim."

Was Moose really all that dangerous?
The FBI didn't present any evidence that Moose had carried out any attacks himself, and he has no criminal record. But in a Facebook message obtained by the FBI, Moose told an associate, "I have learned a lot from the Muslim terrorists and have no problem using their tactics." Also, his affiliation with the Army of God worries some observers. "The Army of God really is the Christian version of the Taliban," says Ed Brayton at ScienceBlogs, and given its real history of violence, it's "not a hypothetical threat."

Is he still dangerous?
From what he told the feds, Moose thinks he is. He told the FBI informant that he's set up at least one "phantom cell" of the Army of God, adding, "This is not my first rodeo." Also, he posted this note on Facebook Aug. 23: "To all the feds watching me: You can't stop what is in motion. Even if you bring me in, my men will continue their mission. Furthermore, I will not go peacefully. Do you really want another Waco?


Read more here:
Via
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
BecauseHeLives wrote:
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:I was going to say: What criteria should we use when somebody claims to be a Christian? We've been over THAT territory enough, I think. Every tiny variation of the Christian religion teaches that THEY are "true" and all others are either outright false or at least suspect. So it has been from the beginning. So it shall ever be.


The issue is that you people believe that every Christian can never fail.

What on earth gave you that impression? I know that everyone has their failings and imperfections. I learned that from looking in the mirror.

But we (some of us, at any rate) do happen to know that the Bible says that Christians are sinless. How those statements in 1 John should be taken and applied... well, that's a whole other ball of wax, IMO.
User avatar
SouthernFriedInfidel
 
I caught a bit of this on the radio this week. I was unaware you could be charged for spreading information on how to build a bomb. Seems like a conflict with freedom of speech?
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
Liv wrote:I caught a bit of this on the radio this week. I was unaware you could be charged for spreading information on how to build a bomb. Seems like a conflict with freedom of speech?


Read the article. Seems to be a bit more than that. I think aiding and abetting at least.
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
I have read it, and other articles and it appears that the charge is: distributing information on building a bomb

Unless I'm missing something here.
User avatar
Liv
I show you something fantastic and you find fault.
 
A North Carolina man accused of describing how to make explosives to bomb an abortion clinic is being held without bond.


Prosecutors say Justin Carl Moose used his Facebook page to encourage violence against local planned parenthood clinics and even provided instructions on how to build a bomb.

The department of justice reports his Facebook page was damaging enough to launch an investigation into another man.


FBI
John W. Stone, Jr., Acting United States Attorney for the Middle District of North Carolina, announced today that Justin Carl Moose, 26, of Concord, North Carolina was arrested on September 7, 2010 on charges of providing information related to the making, use, or manufacture of an explosive, destructive device, or weapon of mass destruction to a person Moose believed was planning to bomb a women’s health clinic in North Carolina.

The Criminal Complaint alleges that Moose utilized a social networking website as a platform to advocate violence against women’s health care clinics—specifically locations where abortions are performed—and the health care professionals employed at these facilities. Furthermore, the Complaint alleges that during the week immediately preceding his arrest, Moose spoke and met with a confidential source and provided detailed information and instruction about various explosives or incendiary methods for the purpose of enabling the source to destroy an abortion clinic in North Carolina.

The Criminal Complaint charges Moose with violating Title 18, United States Code, Section 842(p)(2)(B), Distribution of Information Relating to Explosives, Destructive Devices, and Weapons of Mass Destruction. If convicted, Moose faces up to 20 years in prison and a $250,000.00 fine.


So he did much more than just post instructions on bomb making - it was for a specific stated purpose. Not for just saying "Mix Ammonium Nitrate with 6% by weight of diesel to make a bomb."
User avatar
A Person
 
http://www.salisburypost.com/Crime/-WEB ... -Moose-qcd\\ from the local paper, a photo of Osama Bin Jesus
0910nemoose.justinsuit_w300.jpg



"After obtaining a search warrant, the FBI got access to private messages on Moose’s Facebook account, the affidavit says. In one, Moose wrote, “If there’s any good that I do, I give the glory to my father God. And if there’s any bad I do, well I guess I can take credit for that :) As far as I’m concerned nothing is off limits to stop abortion. Anything and everything goes.” "

"In another private message, he wrote: “...there was an experience that made me a militant... My entire life has centered around the art of making war. Destruction is what I know best... I realize that the Holy Spirit has been preparing me to teach and lead others... Over the next few weeks (or months...) I will be writing down all that I have learned over the years concerning destructive devices, sabotage, covert operations, and survival skills.” "

He says he's a christian. If I'm supposed to take the word of BHL and his buds that THEY are, then I have to take Moose's word he is too.
User avatar
C. Alice
 
Once again, Sanjorno is an atheist douche! You wear it like a badge, as if it automatically makes you superiour! I'm sorry, but bugger off with your attacks on faith and anyone who disagrees with you.

Citation???
GodsavethequeenofEngland
 
Just leave it to sanjaro to attack Christians, makes false statements like anti-science and anti-intellectualism. He likes to take a case like this and run with it. Yet, he turns a blind eye to the atrocities of Islam.
User avatar
thesumofyourfears
Freedom Lover
 
thesumofyourfears wrote:Yet, he turns a blind eye to the atrocities of Islam.

That simply shows you haven't read his posts. You're just making sh!t up as usual.
User avatar
A Person
 
thesumofyourfears wrote:Just leave it to sanjaro to attack Christians, makes false statements like anti-science and anti-intellectualism. He likes to take a case like this and run with it. Yet, he turns a blind eye to the atrocities of Islam.



Oh man, my apologies. I must have somehow missed the part about the Muslim extremists working with this guy on his plan to blow up the abortion clinic.... Since thats what we are talking about in this instance.

After all, there are plenty of other posts about the Muslim extremists and what they've done, but as far as I can tell none of them were working with this guy, so please redirect me to that part of the story...



...unless you are attempting to deflect attention of course. ಠ_ಠ
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
A Person wrote:
thesumofyourfears wrote:Yet, he turns a blind eye to the atrocities of Islam.

That simply shows you haven't read his posts. You're just making sh!t up as usual.


C'mon APerson, if you have no leg to stand on you just make up B.S., deflect, and insult. Them's the rules dontchaknow. :dance:
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
Sanjuro wrote:
thesumofyourfears wrote:Just leave it to sanjaro to attack Christians, makes false statements like anti-science and anti-intellectualism. He likes to take a case like this and run with it. Yet, he turns a blind eye to the atrocities of Islam.



Oh man, my apologies. I must have somehow missed the part about the Muslim extremists working with this guy on his plan to blow up the abortion clinic.... Since thats what we are talking about in this instance.

After all, there are plenty of other posts about the Muslim extremists and what they've done, but as far as I can tell none of them were working with this guy, so please redirect me to that part of the story...



...unless you are attempting to deflect attention of course. ಠ_ಠ


If the guy in this case is a "Christian Extremist", then what are you? No, you missed the point and assumed the wrong notion. But that is be expected of you. No one is trying to show that muslims worked with him or were associated with him. How you conclude that is probably your foaming-at-the-mouth-hatred for Christians interfering with rational thought. A spade is a spade. For starters, Islam is very intolerant and abusive to women and even kill them for not following certain Islamic law, let alone bombing skyscrapers, embassies, Marine Barracks and Navy ships. Seems as if you have no problem with that and turn a blind eye. Muslims have no tolerance for and hates Christians and Jews and, you know, you might be a good fit, eh?
User avatar
thesumofyourfears
Freedom Lover
 
Like aperson said, you obviously dont read my posts. He is an extremist because he wanted to use deadly violence to further his religious cause, and I dont condone deadly violence because I have no religious cause to warrant it. I can only assume you were making a joke there.

You seem to lump all followers of Islam into one group and that is simply not reflective of the reality. Demonizing a group on the foibles of their most extreme element is just as irresponsible and false as if I were to claim all of Christianity is responsible for the actions of this accused bomb plotter. You may want to think about reaching out and getting to know more diverse groups of people. It would help broaden your perspective on this I think.
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
Sanjuro wrote:Like aperson said, you obviously dont read my posts.


Oh, I did

Seems another Christian extremist was charged this week before their insanity could reach its "final solution"

and

People will continue to claim the extremist right wing rhetoric being spewed by the Tea Party, Fox News, right wing Christianity, and punditry will not harm anyone, when it is plainly obvious it will. This is exactly what happens when you push anti-intellectualism and anti-science over superstitions and fears.

"final solution"? I see you are using a very familiar phrase? Could it have been a Nazi phrase? You are using this term to suggest something? Don't blow smoke it my face.

You seem to lump all followers of Islam into one group and that is simply not reflective of the reality. Demonizing a group on the foibles of their most extreme element is just as irresponsible and false as if I were to claim all of Christianity is responsible for the actions of this accused bomb plotter. You may want to think about reaching out and getting to know more diverse groups of people. It would help broaden your perspective on this I think.


Not reflective in reality? Then don't try and lump this guy in this case to suggest that Christians, Tea Party, Fox News, et al are all like this guy. I have far more experience in "diversity" than you will ever know.
User avatar
thesumofyourfears
Freedom Lover
 
thesumofyourfears wrote:
"final solution"? I see you are using a very familiar phrase? Could it have been a Nazi phrase? You are using this term to suggest something? Don't blow smoke it my face.


You again seem to not be delineating (or purposely ignoring) the right wing of Christianity from the moderate Christians that make up the majority. Don't twist my words. "Another Christian extremist " means just that and in no way implies that all Christians are extremists. And yes, "final Solution" was meant to imply that it was his final solution to his problem. Blowing something up and killing folks is pretty final. Im pretty sure the Nazi "final solution" was pretty final too in the fact it was meant to satisfy an out of control ideology that ended in death. Lets call a spade a spade shall we?

thesumofyourfears wrote:
Not reflective in reality? Then don't try and lump this guy in this case to suggest that Christians, Tea Party, Fox News, et al are all like this guy.


You aren't reading what I wrote. You are reading what you want to THINK I wrote. The fringe commentary offered by these outlets push the boundries (and crossing them in many cases) of responsible diatribe. Completely excluding rational thought, discussion and decency. They are meant to get attention, ratings, and provide shock value by placating to idealists. Ideology which organizations like the Tea Party offer are much different than the conservative philosophy of the Republican Party. Someone recently put it better than I could:

"I respect people with a conservative philosophy. This country has been well-served by having two broad traditions within which people can operate. If you have a philosophy, it means you’re generally inclined one way or the other but you’re open to evidence. If you have an ideology, it means everything is determined by dogma and you’re impervious to evidence. Evidence is irrelevant."

Most people can differentiate this, but some (like the mentally disturbed or true idealists) cannot. It is also very very dangerous to claim oneself as a 'news source' or 'authority' and placate to the fringe as it can solidify their righteousness in doing some horrible thing they have convinced themselves of. So, its ultimately irresponsible to preach this ideology and claim it is not hurting in some way.

thesumofyourfears wrote:I have far more experience in "diversity" than you will ever know.


I'm all ears.
User avatar
Sanjuro
Expert...on everything...
 
Sanjuro wrote:
You again seem to not be delineating (or purposely ignoring) the right wing of Christianity from the moderate Christians that make up the majority. Don't twist my words. "Another Christian extremist " means just that and in no way implies that all Christians are extremists. And yes, "final Solution" was meant to imply that it was his final solution to his problem. Blowing something up and killing folks is pretty final. Im pretty sure the Nazi "final solution" was pretty final too in the fact it was meant to satisfy an out of control ideology that ended in death. Lets call a spade a spade shall we?


You going to have to define what is right wing Christianity and what is moderate Christians and what is Christian extremist.



The fringe commentary offered by these outlets push the boundries (and crossing them in many cases) of responsible diatribe. Completely excluding rational thought, discussion and decency. They are meant to get attention, ratings, and provide shock value by placating to idealists.


Of course, I don't doubt religious fringe elements.

Ideology which organizations like the Tea Party offer are much different than the conservative philosophy of the Republican Party. Someone recently put it better than I could:


You don't know what the ideology of what the Tea Party movement is and it shows.

"I respect people with a conservative philosophy. This country has been well-served by having two broad traditions within which people can operate. If you have a philosophy, it means you’re generally inclined one way or the other but you’re open to evidence. If you have an ideology, it means everything is determined by dogma and you’re impervious to evidence. Evidence is irrelevant."


Obviously, this is a liberal quote. I can say the same thing for liberal philosophy. I don't totally agree with this quote. This quote gives the term "ideology" a band name, or connotation. Liberal ideologues do exits as well. Capitalism is a type of economic ideology, socialism is at type of economic ideology. Some of us subscribe to one and some of us subscribe to the other. Sometimes, you sound like you don't stand for anything, but you sure have no problem pushing the liberal/socialist agenda.

I'm all ears.


In a previous career quite a few years back, I have been to many countries in Europe, both East and West, Africa, Middle East and Caribbean; learned about many cultures, customs, enjoyed the food,etc. of different people; even picked up a little of the languages, but lost the languages. I spent a day with 2 French families, one family one one day and another family on another day. None of them spoke English. It was a challenge to try to communicate, kinda fun too. We all laughed at it. But eventually, you do learn. I would love to go back to some of these places and see these families.
User avatar
thesumofyourfears
Freedom Lover