How to treat a woman on a date

How to treat a woman on a date

by SouthernFriedInfidel | Published on August 3rd, 2009, 2:36 pm | Life

Some guy decided that he knows what it takes to make a successful date, and wrote up his guidelines for an outing based on chivalry.

A few things, I suppose are OK -- but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. I mean... putting her coat on for her? Ordering her food for her (after "discussing the order with her" of course)?

I dunno -- seems a bit much. What do active daters think?

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:Some guy decided that he knows what it takes to make a successful date, and wrote up his guidelines for an outing based on chivalry.

A few things, I suppose are OK -- but some of this stuff is a bit over the top. I mean... putting her coat on for her? Ordering her food for her (after "discussing the order with her" of course)?

I dunno -- seems a bit much. What do active daters think?

Not an active dater here but I agree with everything said in the article. My oldest daughter never wanted a boy to get the door for her. I told her that I wanted her boyfriend to do so whether she wanted it done or not. Turns out she likes it and it shows a great deal of respect. My daughters have been instructed to stand there until the door is opened for them.

You would assume that men would not need tips in chivalry, that acts of courtesy should just be a given. Are these tips for first dates or are we talking 5 years down the road. I'm the first to admit that some of those courting trends gradually get thrown out the window after 11 years or so.
As a woman I have always been a little more assertive, growing up near LA than some "girlie- girls". Though I am a fan of equality I have never been a huge supporter of radical feminism. Honestly when women turn things into a "because we are women" thing it drives me nuts. To me it's almost like hurting the cause. When Liv and I first got together I have to admit I firmly stated certain standards and expectations.
With that all being said though, I love romance. I simply love chivalry. I am a drama girl that will always love passion and swooning romance along with all the courting antics that follow. I mean, for goodness sakes, I still melt over Mr. Darcy in "Pride and Prejudice ". My sweet Liv still surprises me once in a while with a small romantic gesture and after all this time I still giggle and get those butterfly flutters like when I was 19. I guess some girls like it while others find it offensive. For all those daters out there don't follow some list. Go with your instinct. Above all, be kind, and be genuine. That's the best recipe for success. Want a favorite tip that is sure to score cute points? Surprise her with a little note. Come up with a clever place to leave it and you'll score points for creativity too.

Not to sound like the complete fat-ass here.... but the way to this women's heart is through the mouth....

<no dirty minds here!>

I want to see the man/woman cook, kiss, and talk.

Meaning they should be proficent in the kitchen, not just able to rip out the checkbook and pay for a meal. They'll should enjoy the small sexual indulgences without the overwhelimg need for something more, and be a brilliant mind, good conversationalist... perhaps even a singer....

I can say without a doubt, I got all three in Shannon.

I agree there is a difference between politeness and over the top obsequiousness or domineering.

Opening doors is only politeness. Helping someone with their coat depends on what they're wearing. If she's wearing a sweater and jeans then she can get her own anorak on, if she's dressed to the nines with an evening dress, hairdo, jewelry, hat etc. it can be difficult to get a coat on without disturbing the ensemble so it would only be polite to help her on with her coat.

Ordering food for someone is outdated. These days waiters ask each person what they want and how they would like it prepared so it would be domineering to give the order for her - unless she was a shy mouse who was intimidated by waiters

Across the board, I think everyone wants to be treated with respect, common courtesy, and so on. I think the better advice on how to treat a person (but not A Person...that's another subject!) on a date starts with knowing the person well enough to know how he/she wants to be treated. This whole thing about how to treat women, regarding their coats and chairs and ordering depends on the individual. If she wants to be the submissive helpless "can't even open a door myself" person, it will be pretty clear.

Serendipitous wrote: If she wants to be the submissive helpless "can't even open a door myself" person, it will be pretty clear.

Well, to be fair... if BHL is bringing his daughter up in a "Good 'ol Bible thumpin" household they pretty much have to be.

I generally hold open doors for anyone when the placement and timing of people is right. I have rarely helped with chair placement. I mean, honestly... if someone can't pull their chair up to the table, they need to be in a nursing home.

It never occurred to me to order for anyone who can read a menu. Once anyone is old enough to read, they can bloody well tell the waiter what they want. That's part of the "chivalry" gig that I can't wrap my wits around.

Sanjuro wrote:
Serendipitous wrote: If she wants to be the submissive helpless "can't even open a door myself" person, it will be pretty clear.

Well, to be fair... if BHL is bringing his daughter up in a "Good 'ol Bible thumpin" household they pretty much have to be.

You know nothing of how I raise my children and you know nothing about the bible either.

BecauseHeLives wrote:You know nothing of how I raise my children ...

Well, um, actually at least as far as this thread is concerned... we... umm... well, I'll let your words make the point...

BecauseHeLives wrote:Not an active dater here but I agree with everything said in the article. My oldest daughter never wanted a boy to get the door for her. I told her that I wanted her boyfriend to do so whether she wanted it done or not. Turns out she likes it and it shows a great deal of respect. My daughters have been instructed to stand there until the door is opened for them.

BecauseHeLives wrote:
Sanjuro wrote:
Serendipitous wrote: If she wants to be the submissive helpless "can't even open a door myself" person, it will be pretty clear.

Well, to be fair... if BHL is bringing his daughter up in a "Good 'ol Bible thumpin" household they pretty much have to be.

You know nothing of how I raise my children and you know nothing about the bible either.

I know (A) you say you are a devout Christian and you keep referring to that damn thing about how to live your life... and I know (B) that its replete with (expletive) like this about keeping women under foot (my turn with the verses! :dance:

):

"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued." (Eccles. 26:14-15)

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." (Genesis 3:16)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

BecauseHeLives wrote:You know nothing of how I raise my children and you know nothing about the bible either.

We know what you said about how you raise your children.

And we often are able to demonstrate that we know much more about the Bible than you most likely EVER will.

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:You know nothing of how I raise my children and you know nothing about the bible either.

We know what you said about how you raise your children.

And we often are able to demonstrate that we know much more about the Bible than you most likely EVER will.

Wrong.

Serendipitous wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:You know nothing of how I raise my children ...

Well, um, actually at least as far as this thread is concerned... we... umm... well, I'll let your words make the point...

BecauseHeLives wrote:Not an active dater here but I agree with everything said in the article. My oldest daughter never wanted a boy to get the door for her. I told her that I wanted her boyfriend to do so whether she wanted it done or not. Turns out she likes it and it shows a great deal of respect. My daughters have been instructed to stand there until the door is opened for them.

Sup... Sanjuro is trying make a correlation with how I raise my children with HIS biblical interpretation that they should obedient, inferior, and suppressed. Sanjuro is just being a jerk. That's possibly why he can't keep a woman.

BecauseHeLives wrote:
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:You know nothing of how I raise my children and you know nothing about the bible either.

We know what you said about how you raise your children.

And we often are able to demonstrate that we know much more about the Bible than you most likely EVER will.

Wrong.

Oooh! Well played!

I done been told, I guess. :twisted:

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:I done been told, I guess.

There, there... you'll be okay.

BecauseHeLives wrote:Sup... Sanjuro is trying make a correlation with how I raise my children with HIS biblical interpretation that they should obedient, inferior, and suppressed. Sanjuro is just being a jerk. That's possibly why he can't keep a woman.

If I remember the Ten Commandments correctly, one of them is "honor thy father and mother"... doesn't "honoring" include being obedient etc? As for keeping a partner, I thought most bible-y folks like yourself think relationships with others only last if you let Jesus or the holy spirit or something into the relationship... (so that the woman will submit to her husband and let him control everything and so on...)

BecauseHeLives wrote:
Sup... Sanjuro is trying make a correlation with how I raise my children with HIS biblical interpretation that they should obedient, inferior, and suppressed. Sanjuro is just being a jerk. That's possibly why he can't keep a woman.

Actually I'm just taking your volume of posts about your Christian adherence, and taking what we already know about how you raise your kids, and drawing the natural conclusion. Not being a jerk. Well, I am. But its for a good cause. Namely to get you to look at things from a different angle. How perhaps having a daughter stand there to wait (in her place?) for a door to be opened might not be the best idea for a couple of reasons.

There is nothing wrong with politeness and courteousness, but there is a problem with keeping rather antiquated expectations without questioning first: why we do such things in the first place, and second: if there is even a point to it. Seriously, if its such a big deal wouldn't she want a guy who would do it without her standing there to 'remind' him?

If I remember the Ten Commandments correctly, one of them is "honor thy father and mother"... doesn't "honoring" include being obedient etc?

Yes. As long as that obedience doesn't break other commandments of God. For instance, if your parents told you to lie and say you were under 10 years old to get a discounted movie ticket then it would be wrong to obedient in this case. Besides, what is wrong with being obedient to your parents? BTW... you are to honor your parents as long as you live, not as long as THEY live.

As for keeping a partner, I thought most bible-y folks like yourself think relationships with others only last if you let Jesus or the holy spirit or something into the relationship...

That's not correct. Many people can have very good relationships with their spouse without having God in their lives. If that is the case then God has certainly blessed them. However, that couple will never reach the peak potential of their relationship until they both put God 1st in their lives and then their spouse 2nd.

(so that the woman will submit to her husband and let him control everything and so on...)

Your questions seemed rational until right here. When you read those verses in context (if you actually have) what do you suppose the term "likewise" means? My wife and I both make unilateral decisions in our family. the bigger things we both discuss and agree on. Likewise.

Sanjuro wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:
Sup... Sanjuro is trying make a correlation with how I raise my children with HIS biblical interpretation that they should obedient, inferior, and suppressed. Sanjuro is just being a jerk. That's possibly why he can't keep a woman.

Actually I'm just taking your volume of posts about your Christian adherence, and taking what we already know about how you raise your kids, and drawing the natural conclusion. Not being a jerk. Well, I am. But its for a good cause. Namely to get you to look at things from a different angle. How perhaps having a daughter stand there to wait (in her place?) for a door to be opened might not be the best idea for a couple of reasons.

There is nothing wrong with politeness and courteousness, but there is a problem with keeping rather antiquated expectations without questioning first: why we do such things in the first place, and second: if there is even a point to it. Seriously, if its such a big deal wouldn't she want a guy who would do it without her standing there to 'remind' him?

There is no substitute for courtest and respect. A boy that pulls up in the driveway and texts a girl that he's waiting for her is plain rude. He gets out of the car and comes to the door. When they leave he opens the car door for her. Where possible he opens any door for her along the way. Getting out of the car he doesn't have to get her door UNLESS it is a special occasion/event. When they get home he walks her back to the door. None of this is optional. I still do this with my wife and I expect my daughters to be treated the same way.

That's how my children are raised. You can raise your children as jerks if you want. All you have to do is let them watch you.

BecauseHeLives wrote:
(so that the woman will submit to her husband and let him control everything and so on...)

Your questions seemed rational until right here. When you read those verses in context (if you actually have) what do you suppose the term "likewise" means? My wife and I both make unilateral decisions in our family. the bigger things we both discuss and agree on. Likewise.

"Agree on" - does she simply agree with you (i.e. go along with it) or are you both in agreement (coming from different points and arriving at a decision together)?

I actually have read Ephesians (I think that's the book with the verse about "wives submit to your husbands")... and then it goes on with something like "husbands love your wives as you love yourself"... I guess that is a nice thought, that if a person cares enough about oneself then he/she will take good care of the partner. But that's not an equal partnership.

Serendipitous wrote:
BecauseHeLives wrote:
(so that the woman will submit to her husband and let him control everything and so on...)

Your questions seemed rational until right here. When you read those verses in context (if you actually have) what do you suppose the term "likewise" means? My wife and I both make unilateral decisions in our family. the bigger things we both discuss and agree on. Likewise.

"Agree on" - does she simply agree with you (i.e. go along with it) or are you both in agreement (coming from different points and arriving at a decision together)?

I actually have read Ephesians (I think that's the book with the verse about "wives submit to your husbands")... and then it goes on with something like "husbands love your wives as you love yourself"... I guess that is a nice thought, that if a person cares enough about oneself then he/she will take good care of the partner. But that's not an equal partnership.

It's not just a nice thought but a command to treat your wife as you would want to be treated. In my case, if I don't take her wishes into very consideration, and likewise my wishes to her, then we are not fulfilling God's wishes. I don't think I've ever made a decision that was contrary to her wishes.

Also, when you read Epheians don't read submission as being an unequal. It's just not the same thing. A marriage combines a man and a woman into one person. Each part of a person performs different functions.

Ephesians 5: 25 - 33, it states:

Ephesians 5:25-33

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

The woman should always get the way better deal out of this arrangment. When Jesus came He SERVED the people below Him and He loved those people with all of His heart. So should a husband treat his wife. This is what boggles me when women throw up that verse in peoples faces. If they really understand the verses in context they would realize it's opposite of how they are interpreting it at first glance. If this isn't what a woman would want then there is something wrong with that woman.

Submissiveness is unequal even if the person you're submitting to is supposed to have your best intentions in mind (and heart) because he/she is treating you the way he/she wants to be treated (or as the verse reads "love your wives as you love yourselves"). We cannot live in a "Father Knows Best" society though there are still plenty of households that follow that operating model.

Serendipitous wrote:Submissiveness is unequal even if the person you're submitting to is supposed to have your best intentions in mind ...

The whole dominance/submission gig is not compatible with the notion of people being born equal. Sure, it CAN be used to foster a long-term marriage, so long as the dominant one and the submissive one are agreeable.

But for those who are keen on living in a two-way partnership, where each one has equal rights and power, there are other options. And they can also work quite well. My parents were equal partners in life, and they stayed together, and dearly loved each other, for 60 years. You can't argue with success.

Alright everyone, I'm chiming in. It's all about balance. As with anything in life. I could never be in an authoritarian relationship. I have my own mind and I'm not afraid to use it. We have made our home work most efficiently listening and compromising together but I must admit Liv and I know and trust each other well enough to recognize when to give the other the reins.
I have witnessed families where men are encouraged to be the leader and voice for the family. Chrisitian familes are encouraged to honor the mother but follow the father as it is his "job" to lead them to God. The children are to learn from the parents by example and trust them to make the decisions in their best interest. In my family my parents did try to lead us forward to be righteous. The only problem was that I always had an issue being a "follower". That set up just never worked for me and I could have never developed as a person if I had continued to let myself be oppressed in a way. I was born with the "assertive" gene. Mom calls it my "bitchy gene". It was often voiced in fellowship that my strength was appreciated but that as a woman I should have been more demure.
However, I do think that it is important for girls to expect and demand to be treated respectfully by their "suitors". Far too often with young people in my life I am seeing love taken for granted and relationships being played like some sort of game. Girls need to be taught at home to love themselves and expect nothing less than 100% respect and courtesy from their partner. I can see where BHL is coming from in trying to train his daughters not to settle for rude behavior. It's good to plant the seed in our children, but you must believe that they are strong enough to make their own decisions without placing such a stingent and traditional code of conduct. I can only imagine that these boys your daughter chooses are the kind that do not need the reminder of manners. I'm sure you don't want these practices of respect leading to the idea where your daughter is seen by these boys in a role of submission. If she respects herself she will find love that embodies that.