Abortion: the game of Duck, Duck, Duck, GOOSE!

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by Expert...on everything...
Published on July 27th, 2008, 6:24 pm
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The Rain King wrote:
A Person wrote:YYou're probably right, everyone knows that the US teen pregnancy rate is the worst in the developed world and on par with developing countries. The difference is that the US can afford education and contraception but chooses not to.


Oh, is it now?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article386048.ece


Didnt see where that article mentioned pregnancy rates, but maybe I missed it.
John Cleese: The audience is too uninformed. I blame the Americans. Nation of obese, violent, pig-ignorant, bible-thumping morons contaminating world culture. That’s why I spend most of my time here in France.. Beautiful isn’t it? Just look at those olive trees.

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July 27th, 2008, 6:24 pm
 
Sanjuro wrote:
The Rain King wrote:
A Person wrote:YYou're probably right, everyone knows that the US teen pregnancy rate is the worst in the developed world and on par with developing countries. The difference is that the US can afford education and contraception but chooses not to.

Oh, is it now?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article386048.ece

Didnt see where that article mentioned pregnancy rates, but maybe I missed it.


* Nearly 2,000 children aged 14 and under are in hospital each year because of drunkenness, a rise of 13.5 per cent over the past six years in England

* The number of women under 25 in hospital with mental health problems triggered by alcohol has risen by 9 per cent in seven years. The rate among girls under 14 rose by 24 per cent

* 38 per cent of teenagers in Britain — 42 per cent of boys and 35 per cent of girls — admit trying illicit drugs

* More than a quarter of girls aged 15-16 admitted binge drinking in a survey of 100,000 European students

* Of 15-year-olds who have had sex, one in three said they did not use a condom when they last had intercourse and one in five said they used no contraception

* Between 1995 and 2002, cases of gonorrhoea more than doubled in boys aged 13-19. Cases of chlamydia also tripled

* 42 out of every 1,000 girls aged 15-17 become pregnant
The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. -- Albert Camus

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July 27th, 2008, 6:29 pm
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The Rain King
 
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Further, it actually supports what Aperson said about putting efforts into education and prevention. Thats a 2005 article, wonder how things are in 08? Either way, arent either figures still better than the US rates?
John Cleese: The audience is too uninformed. I blame the Americans. Nation of obese, violent, pig-ignorant, bible-thumping morons contaminating world culture. That’s why I spend most of my time here in France.. Beautiful isn’t it? Just look at those olive trees.

Interviewer: This is Santa Barbara.
July 27th, 2008, 6:30 pm
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Sanjuro
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Sanjuro wrote:Further, it actually supports what Aperson said about putting efforts into education and prevention. Thats a 2005 article, wonder how things are in 08? Either way, arent either figures still better than the US rates?


Wasn't his point. And yeah, I'm sure things have greatly improved since then.. :roll:
The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. -- Albert Camus

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
-- John Steinbeck
July 27th, 2008, 6:33 pm
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The Rain King wrote:
Sanjuro wrote:Further, it actually supports what Aperson said about putting efforts into education and prevention. Thats a 2005 article, wonder how things are in 08? Either way, arent either figures still better than the US rates?


Wasn't his point. And yeah, I'm sure things have greatly improved since then.. :roll:


He said the us teen pregnancy rates were the worst in the western world. The article did nothing to counter that. All the article was doing was alerting to an increase in activity within the UK. Perhaps I cant see what you're getting at.
John Cleese: The audience is too uninformed. I blame the Americans. Nation of obese, violent, pig-ignorant, bible-thumping morons contaminating world culture. That’s why I spend most of my time here in France.. Beautiful isn’t it? Just look at those olive trees.

Interviewer: This is Santa Barbara.
July 27th, 2008, 6:35 pm
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Sanjuro
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Woot! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_pregnancy

Check out the chart on the right. Abysmal.
John Cleese: The audience is too uninformed. I blame the Americans. Nation of obese, violent, pig-ignorant, bible-thumping morons contaminating world culture. That’s why I spend most of my time here in France.. Beautiful isn’t it? Just look at those olive trees.

Interviewer: This is Santa Barbara.
July 27th, 2008, 6:42 pm
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Sanjuro
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"YYou're probably right, everyone knows that the US teen pregnancy rate is the worst in the developed world and on par with developing countries."

Okay, where's his figures?

Seems to me the problem is a bit more global in nature. I'll admit, the attitude towards sex education in this country doesn't help.
The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion. -- Albert Camus

Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
-- John Steinbeck
July 27th, 2008, 6:44 pm
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BecauseHeLives wrote:All of them are obviously afraid to actually comment directly on your experience, Sterling. They prefer to simply talk in circles. You don't have to be a Christian or a "believer" to see the irony in your post and that the person obviously valued the lives of fowl over the lives on an unborn baby. It's funny but in the same respect it's exceptionally UNfunny.

As far as Christians having abortions: I believe that most people who call themselves Christians are not in fact Christians. They may simply be believers. Believers are not always saved and don't necessarily have the holy spirit guiding their lives.

Make in me a new heart..... o'Lord.

Bless you Sterling for you perseverance and being steadfast.

The words you use show that you simply cannot communicate with people who disagree with you. When you identify a foetus as an unborn baby, you automatically discount other people's beliefs that an early foetus is not yet a baby, but only a potential baby. Nobody is talking in circles. However, people on this blog do come from differenp positions and they have very different world views. I understand clearly that you consider a fertilized egg to be a full human baby that should have all the rights of a baby born healthy or a child or an adult.

I simply disagree with you. That doesn't make me any less Christian than you or Sterling. In fact, in my world view, it makes me more Christian because my views are more in concert with what Jesus said and taught. And equally important, with what Jesus did NOT say or teach. I do not accept later church leaders as the equal of Christ. That includes Paul, and other Christian writers, right up to and including the current pope. It certainly does not include people like Martin Luther, Oral Roberts, James Dobson, Warren Jeffs, or any of the people who claim to know more about God's mind than Jesus Himself knew. The best guides that we have to what Jesus actually taught are the 4 gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and the later gospels and partial gospels found at Nag Hammadi. This is because they appear to be the earliest Christian writings that have been preserved.

Some of these writings were rejected at the Council of Nicaea called by Emperor Constantine in A.D. 325. History shows that there was wide disagreement about which of the writings were truly representative of Jesus, and equally important, which writings supported the beliefs that the powerful men of the time wanted in the church. (Women were excluded from that council). Peter himself disagreed with Jesus about the place of women in the Church. And of course, after Jesus died, Peter's views were what guided the early Christian church. Sadly, Peter was not prepared to accept Jesus' teachings on the role of women, and I choose to believe Jesus and not those who subsequently rejected so much of what Jesus taught by word and example.

I wish the Lord would make you a new heart, and one that is prepared to accept the equality of all people, the equality that Jesus modeled---but that my and your church reject.
July 27th, 2008, 7:04 pm
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BecauseHeLives wrote:...Good grief! It's the atheists attacking Christianity in these forums here. Not the other way around. If you believe it is the Christians on this board attacking the atheists then you aren't reading the same forums that I am. Perhaps you should simply go back and skim the subject matter of the last 50 posts in the religion forum and then you'll realize who is doing the attacking and who is doing the defending.

Excuse me, but are you really so socially inept that you fail to understand that calling other people's beliefs immoral and evil is attacking them? You believe that all abortion is murdering full human beings. Are you completely unable to understand that other people do not agree with you? Telling them that their beliefs are evil is attacking them.
July 27th, 2008, 7:14 pm
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BecauseHeLives wrote:...BTW AP... I'm up here in the great white north this week and I've ran into some of the most unGodly people in my life. The beer joints outnumber the churches by at least 20-1 and churches I have seen seem to be the new age stuff. Maybe you had a hand in it?

I don't think many atheists have much hand in churches. However, there are WAY more smart, educated, well off people in the North than in the deep South. And there is quite a strong correlation between being well educated and being economically secure and abandoning churches. Most particularly, well educated people tend to reject fundamentalist churches, extremist religions, and churches that promote hatred. Economically secure people tend to avoid fundamentalist churches in general. Those of us in the North would prefer that you keep your vile, fundamentalist, KKK loving, anti-Christian churches to yourselves down there in the South. I had the great misfortune to live in the south for a year.

I could NOT believe how unChristian and mean people are down there. The women seem to take joy in cutting each other to the bone. When the old soap "Dallas" was on, I actually thought the vile behavior of the women toward each other was an exaggeration. Then when I lived in the South (for a blessedly short period of time), I discovered that is the way most of the Southern white women I met behaved. Yuk!
July 27th, 2008, 7:26 pm
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The Rain King wrote:
A Person wrote:YYou're probably right, everyone knows that the US teen pregnancy rate is the worst in the developed world and on par with developing countries. The difference is that the US can afford education and contraception but chooses not to.


Oh, is it now?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article386048.ece

Yes, it is. The Times article confirms what I said:

Teen pregnancy rates:
Toronto: 45/1000
UK: 42/1000
Mississippi: 103/1000

US teen pregnancy rate is more than double that of Canada and the UK, neither countries being exceptional in the developed world.

The Rain King wrote:Wasn't his point.

Yes it was

I'm not suggesting that things are perfect in other countries, just that the prevalence of teaching abstinence and restricting education about and access to, contraception and abortion in the US has failed and results in more pregnancies, unwanted children and abortions. By refusing to educate and by demonizing organizations such as Planned Parenthood the religious right are responsible for more suffering and abortions - what they claim to be against. It would be ironic if it wasn't sad.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
July 27th, 2008, 10:58 pm
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OK... is comparing the UK and Canada to ol' Miss really a fair thing to do?
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July 28th, 2008, 12:23 am
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BecauseHeLives wrote:OK... is comparing the UK and Canada to ol' Miss really a fair thing to do?

Probably not. The UK and Canada should feel insulted. :roll:
July 28th, 2008, 5:33 am
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BecauseHeLives wrote:OK... is comparing the UK and Canada to ol' Miss really a fair thing to do?


Why not? Ol' Miss is one of the least Godless states, firmly opposed to abortion and sex education.

BTW I initially compared it to Toronto, The Rain King brought up the UK. You were the one who brought up all the issue of godless beer-drinking Canadians. I would have used North Carolina but I couldn't find stats. If it's any consolation I think NC is slightly more civilised that ol' Miss and consequently has slightly better stats - it's #9 (ol' Miss is #1) in the US State teen pregnancy stats and it's still more than double the Canadian stats.
Religion is regarded by the common people as true; by the wise as false, and by politicians as useful." Lucius Annaeus Seneca 4 BCE - 65CE
July 28th, 2008, 9:53 am
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