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The REAL Reason America is on a Path to Failure

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Postby Questioner » Sat May 26, 2007 9:21 pm

I rather agree with a lot of fundamentalist preachers that America is on the road to ruin. However, the reason America is rushing toward economic and social failure has nothing to do with sexual morals (which seems to be all the fundamentalists care about). The reason America will fail is that it is seriously degrading its higher education system.

American Universities used to be (and to a great extent still are) seen as the pinnacle of higher education in the world. But that is changing, and changing fast. I see faculty at every University I visit "dumbing down" courses for American students who do not want to do the kind of studying those of us in the Boomer generation took for granted. When we were in school, for a 3 credit course, we expected to study about 6-9 hours outside of class for an undergrad course, and about 9-12 hours outside of class for a graduate course. A typical undergraduate credit hour load of 15 credits meant that the student was in class for 15 hours a week, and studying for about 30 hours a week to get an A or B in the course.

Today, students expect to study only 2-3 hours a week per course, and to not only to pass, but to get "A's" regardless of the quality of their work or whether or not they studied for the course. And students have learned the power of group pressure. A teacher who sets and maintains the kind of standards he/she should in college quickly discoveres that there is a high penalty to pay for setting standards. In some cases, the students go as a group to the Dean to complain about the "unreasonable expectations" of the teacher. In others, the students make sure the teacher's course evaluations come out very low. Students evaluate the course FIRST on whether or not they got their "A". If they know they are not getting an "A", they give the course all zero's on the course evaluation instrument. If they know they are getting "As", then they will generally rate the course highly.

It must be understood that tenure and promotion, not to mention annual merit raises, are in many schools, highly dependent on student course evaluations. In fact, for lots of schools, student evaluations are the only way a college instructor's teaching is evaluated.

University teachers, like everybody who has to support themselves and a family, want to get merit raises and job tenure. So, after their first or second semester of teaching, they quickly learn to stop grading according to performance and to give virtually every student top grades. As a result, grades mean virtually nothing. Quality, for the most part, is not a part of the grading scale anymore.

Today, a huge number of students now graduate with grade point averages (GPAs) of 3.8 or higher. It is not unusual for 50% to 60% of a graduating class to have a 4.0 (straight A's) GPA. An "A" is supposed to mean outstanding achievement in the course. Today, it often means that the student did at least minimally acceptable work. This is called, "grade inflation" and it means that grades have inflated upwards to the point that a B today is given for work that would have earned a C or D in the 1970s.

As to teacher and course evaluations: The students rate courses anonymously, so they have no accountability for what they say about the course or the instructor. Yet, their evaluations count hugely toward the instructor's annual raise and toward whether or not that teacher is given tenure. (In most universities, if you don't make tenure within 7 years, you are terminated). Can you imagine any Union that would allow an employee to be evaluated anonymously by someone who does not have to prove accusations of poor quality work? Yet, university teachers face this unfair evaluation system every semester. So, this means that the teacher, rather than the student, bears the consequences of the student's failure to perform.

I have heard this incredibly stupid system justified by a variety of people who say they care about educational quality. Often, these people sell their version of course evaluations, and argue most vehemently that students do not evaluate a course based on their own course grade. That argument is patently stupid, and every new college teacher who gives fair grades their first two semesters of teaching quickly learns that giving grades of B or C (not to mention Ds or Fs), will get them nothing but horrible course evaluations. It will then get them a poor evaluation on their teaching from the department manager. That in turn, will get them a low annual job evaluation and a poor merit raise. And of course, they will be counseled that if their teaching doesn't "improve" (as measured by student evaluations), they will never get tenure and worse, their contract may not be renewed after next year.

Being relatively bright, new PhDs have already noticed that the number of good student evaluations roughly matches the number of "A"s they gave while the number of bad evaluations roughly matches the number of grades lower than an A they gave. So, they radically lower their grading standards (which in turn, lowers the amount a student has to learn to get an "A"). And the degradation of American education is extended to yet another teacher.

We all know there are schools out there that will give bachelors, masters and doctoral degrees for little or no work. These schools are called diploma mills and everybody knows that their degrees are backed with no knowledge. This system of grading teaching quality entirely on the basis of student evaluations is slowly turning our best Universities into little more than diploma mills.

Some employers don't bother to check out the school from which an applicant's degree comes. So, having a "diploma", regardless of how bogus, can get the owner a much higher paying job than the person could otherwise get. Of course, the employer soon learns that the employee is worthless and if it is a private company, fires him/her. If it is a state or federal employer, often the employer is stuck with the inadequate employee. Fortunately, lots of employers do care about the quality of the university from which a prosepctive employee graduated. And they do not hire somebody with a degree from a diploma mill.

There have been diploma mills for a long time, and most employers have become savy to the fact that some degrees aren't worth the paper they are written on. In the past, employers could rely on the quality of the education if the student's degree was from a University that was accredited by one of the 4 or 5 big, credible, accreditation bodies. (To most employers and academics, this means the University is accredited by North Central for the states in the middle of the country, by the Western Association of Colleges in the western part of the U.S., by the Middle States Association of Colleges for the North East or by the Southern Association of Colleges and Universities in the South East). Today, employers are finding it less and less reliable that a student graduated with high grades from a good university will be at least an adequate, if not outstanding employee.

To all too many students today, a diploma is little more than a piece of paper to hang on their wall and to use as a ticket to get a better job. They neither understand nor value the fact that a university degree is supposed to be granted only after the student has undergone a rigorous course of study in which they proved that they had learned the course material. But what are employers to do when even the best universities continually lower their standards to the point that getting admitted means graduation with a high GPA, regardless of amount learned?

Sadly, I'm seeing a LOT of students today who look at school as a way to obtain their "piece of paper". The diploma is all that matters, and the students are less than interested in gaining a sound and deep knowledge base to back up that diploma. They don't seem to realize (or don't care about) the fact that their college diploma is supposed to represent a set of skills and a body of knowledge that future employers can rely on as a guarantee of the student's ability to function as a valuable and productive member of the work team. Unfortunately, too many students are now looking at it as a ticket of entry into high paying jobs; a ticket that can be bought for money rather than with much hard work.

This view of education is reducing the value of a college degree, and degrading American higher education.

If America fails, then it will be because that view prevails, not because of somebody's lack of belief in fundamentalist religion precepts. Some 3rd world countries have sent a lot of their young people to America to get educated. Many of those highly educated people have gone back to their native countries to upgrade the quality of their universities. Is it going to come to the point where if an American wants a really good education, he or she has to go to India or Saudi Arabia? Or are the people in this country going to do something about the grade inflation and quality degredation of American education?
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Sun May 27, 2007 12:33 am

Wow -- a LOT of thoughts here. Many are sadly very accurate, but there are a few I would like to discuss. Mind you, my view of today's college system is limited...
Questioner wrote:The reason America will fail is that it is seriously degrading its higher education system.

I think that depends on how you see the influence of the products of that system on society in general. After all, the vast majority of people who might be able to go to college never even come close to going. They drop out of high school, or they graduate and figure that menial labor or trade work are more for them, or they go into the military and never bother with college.

So how much influence does the "intelligentsia" of America determine the operation of society?
Today, a huge number of students now graduate with grade point averages (GPAs) of 3.8 or higher. It is not unusual for 50% to 60% of a graduating class to have a 4.0 (straight A's) GPA. An "A" is supposed to mean outstanding achievement in the course. Today, it often means that the student did at least minimally acceptable work. This is called, "grade inflation" and it means that grades have inflated upwards to the point that a B today is given for work that would have earned a C or D in the 1970s.

Here, I'm not sure that your info is accurate. For instance, 2 years ago, when my son graduated Magna Cum Laude, my family had plenty of time to look over the list of gradutes. Only about 20% had any superlatives next to their names. The same was true of the graduates at UNC Chapel Hill, where my neice graduated 4 years ago. I rather think the populations on those days represented a spectrum that most likely looked pretty much the same as when I graduated in 1981. Granted, I have only a couple of data points to work with. How extensive is the data you're using?
As to teacher and course evaluations: The students rate courses anonymously, so they have no accountability for what they say about the course or the instructor. Yet, their evaluations count hugely toward the instructor's annual raise and toward whether or not that teacher is given tenure.

Is that so? I find that hard to believe. I happen to know an instructor at Wake Forest who is bucking for tenure. I'll have to ask him about that. I know that many things in the universities are nonsensical, but I really thought that academic publishing had a lot of weight in job evaluations. This sort of changed atmosphere wouldn't be beyond the pale, for sure...
I have heard this incredibly stupid system justified by a variety of people who say they care about educational quality. Often, these people sell their version of course evaluations, and argue most vehemently that students do not evaluate a course based on their own course grade. That argument is patently stupid, and every new college teacher who gives fair grades their first two semesters of teaching quickly learns that giving grades of B or C (not to mention Ds or Fs), will get them nothing but horrible course evaluations.

Well, it's hard to say. I took part in instructor evaluation surveys a few times when I was in college. The surveys were passed out at the end of the instructional period, before Reading Day. Sure, I knew in general what my grade for the course would be, but there was still hope at that time.

And honestly, I thought anonymous evaluations were most sensible. I didn't relish the thought that my grade might be affected by a sour review from me.
It will then get them a poor evaluation on their teaching from the department manager. That in turn, will get them a low annual job evaluation and a poor merit raise. And of course, they will be counseled that if their teaching doesn't "improve" (as measured by student evaluations), they will never get tenure and worse, their contract may not be renewed after next year.

One thing here. Any educational professional that thinks that student evaluations and course grades are the only way or best way to evaluate an instructor's performance is cracked. And this is something I've often wondered about. Many college professors I encountered in my stint in the UNC sysstem appeared to know an awful lot about their subjects, but virtually nothing about tetaching. I recognized this most particularly since my girl friend (later, wife) was majoring in early childhood education, and I got many glimpses of the sort of stuff teachers had to learn for their profession. Many professors appeared never to have encountered such training. And when my son attended school, his stories from his classes seemed to indicate that not much had changed in this regard over the years.

This is why I have urged him, since he is hoping to end up as a college professor, to take some time over the coming few years and take some training in education. Because it doesn't look like part of the main course of study right now.

But this also makes me wonder if administrators have any training on evaluating the performance of educators in classroom settings.
Sadly, I'm seeing a LOT of students today who look at school as a way to obtain their "piece of paper". The diploma is all that matters, and the students are less than interested in gaining a sound and deep knowledge base to back up that diploma.

Hey -- as ye sow so shall ye reap, eh?
Is it going to come to the point where if an American wants a really good education, he or she has to go to India or Saudi Arabia? Or are the people in this country going to do something about the grade inflation and quality degredation of American education?

Might as well ask whether they're going to wake up and care about the trade deficit with China or the national budget gap. America has been for far too long the home of a far too short attention span, with a view only a couple of inches past its nose. Long-term threats that could be headed off with small corrections today are never noticed... they have to grow into disasters before anyone will even take notice.

So in that sense, I disagree with your assessment. Our nation is doomed not for a long list of problems that have grown over the past few decades. I think it's doomed because of an attitude that has existed from the very beginning, of putting off to next week things that should have been addressed yesterday.
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Postby Questioner » Sun May 27, 2007 4:33 am

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:So how much influence does the "intelligentsia" of America determine the operation of society?
I'm not sure what this question means. My point was that when the most highly educated in our country are woefully behind the educated people in other countries, America will decline. And we are on that path right now.
Questioner wrote:Today, a huge number of students now graduate with grade point averages (GPAs) of 3.8 or higher...
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:Here, I'm not sure that your info is accurate. For instance, 2 years ago, when my son graduated Magna Cum Laude, my family had plenty of time to look over the list of gradutes. Only about 20% had any superlatives next to their names. The same was true of the graduates at UNC Chapel Hill, where my neice graduated 4 years ago. I rather think the populations on those days represented a spectrum that most likely looked pretty much the same as when I graduated in 1981. Granted, I have only a couple of data points to work with. How extensive is the data you're using?
It is extensive enough that there have been several articles about it in the Chronicle of Higher Education and several State Legislatures have tried (unsuccessfully) to address it. The nursing professors tell me that they have an honor society that students used to be able to get into with a 3.5 GPA. Now if they used that criterion, everybody would get in. It takes about a 3.8 GPA to get in and at that, well over 35% of the students are admitted. Grade inflation will never be addressed until student evaluations are only a tiny portion of the faculty member's overall evaluation.
Questioner wrote:As to teacher and course evaluations: The students rate courses anonymously, so they have no accountability for what they say about the course or the instructor. Yet, their evaluations count hugely toward the instructor's annual raise and toward whether or not that teacher is given tenure.
SFI wrote:Is that so? I find that hard to believe. I happen to know an instructor at Wake Forest who is bucking for tenure. I'll have to ask him about that. I know that many things in the universities are nonsensical, but I really thought that academic publishing had a lot of weight in job evaluations.
Publishing is very important, but recently two people in our college got tenure even though one had only 2 non-research based publications in 7 years and the other had only non-funded research. Those two identified their area as teaching rather than research, and one did demonstrate excellent teaching ability (the other did not IMHO). However, I will say that if an assistant professor brings in large grants (with sizeable indirects) and publishes but is a poor teacher, he/she will probably get tenure. In fields other than medicine and engineering, where there is much less federal funding, the teaching evaluations are far more important. And in the Western states that I've seen, some of the legislatures have actually enacted legislation that requires every course to be evaluated and requires that tenure and promotion decisions be at least partly based on teaching evaluations.

Part of what I am seeing is pure cussed laziness on the part of administrators. They don't want to take time to visit classrooms and see what the teachers are doing, so all they have to evaluate a teacher on is the student evaluations. And anyway, they haven't got much idea about how to do teaching evaluations.

SFI wrote:Well, it's hard to say. I took part in instructor evaluation surveys a few times when I was in college. The surveys were passed out at the end of the instructional period, before Reading Day. Sure, I knew in general what my grade for the course would be, but there was still hope at that time.
That isn't the way things are in most schools now. Students must be given grades all throughout the course, and grading is much more strictly regulated than it was 20 years ago. Evaluations are now online instead of given in the classroom, and most students wait to fill out the evaluations until after they have their grades.

SFI wrote:And honestly, I thought anonymous evaluations were most sensible. I didn't relish the thought that my grade might be affected by a sour review from me.
And do you think that teachers relish the idea that their job will be affected by sour reviews from students? Anonomous evaluations?

You wouldn't believe what some students will write on a course evaluation! Let me give you an example. One course I taught several years ago had a female student who flunked the midterm exam. So she got a "down" slip at midterm. She was enraged! She said she had NEVER gotten a grade like that before (it was something like 47%). And she said that in a tone that made it clear that I had graded her unfairly and no other teacher had ever "done that to her before". (The tests were machine graded, and she was the only student who failed it). Turned out she had decided to get married and rather than studying, was preparing for the wedding. (She TOLD me that--because I'm a woman she felt that I should understand her dilemma and raise her grade because of her other committments). At the end of the semester, I (as usual) got excellent evaluations except for one student who marked me the lowest in every single category. And only one student got a B- in the course. Now it isn't all that difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

This isn't a problem for me because I am tenured and have won multiple teaching awards. And one student outlier shouldn't be a problem for any teacher. But do the administrators look at the fact that one student marked the teacher unreasonably? No, they just look at the mean. And when there are only 20 students in a class, one student's zero does affect the mean.

Things have changed greatly in the past 15-20 years from when you probably went to school, SFI. When you were a student, teacher evaluations were generally not weighted on student course evaluations. Besides, you probably didn't think of yourself as a "customer" who had a right to what he/she was "buying". So you didn't evaluate strictly on what grade you were given.

Students pay much higher tuition now because they are paying far more of the cost of their education than we did. State universities no longer pick up 75%-90% of the cost of education. In State Universities, state funding has been cut severely in every state in the union. That is why tuitions have risen much faster than the cost of living. Tuition has to make up for what the states no longer provide. Since students are paying such a huge portion of the cost of their education, many students feel entitled to very high grades for their money. Especially the younger generations.

SFI wrote:Many college professors I encountered in my stint in the UNC sysstem appeared to know an awful lot about their subjects, but virtually nothing about teaching.
That is probably still more of a problem in engineering. But even there, a greater emphasis has been put on teaching quality. In our Medical school (and also in the related health professions schools such as physical therapy, pharmacy and nursing), it is pretty universal that teachers are expected to attend continuing education in educational techniques. We have full time instructional designers and media resources people in our college to help us improve our teaching skills.

SFI wrote:But this also makes me wonder if administrators have any training on evaluating the performance of educators in classroom settings.
Not that I can see.

SFI wrote:Might as well ask whether they're going to wake up and care about the trade deficit with China or the national budget gap. America has been for far too long the home of a far too short attention span, with a view only a couple of inches past its nose. Long-term threats that could be headed off with small corrections today are never noticed... they have to grow into disasters before anyone will even take notice.
Yes! Yes, yes, yes. And why? Often many people cry out warnings of the coming disaster and are ignored. And when it hits, those Cassandras are hated more than ever. Like the warning was the cause of the disaster.

SFI wrote:So in that sense, I disagree with your assessment. Our nation is doomed not for a long list of problems that have grown over the past few decades. I think it's doomed because of an attitude that has existed from the very beginning, of putting off to next week things that should have been addressed yesterday.
All I can say is that if you graduated more than 15 years ago, things have changed radically.
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