NC Constitution and Atheism

[Questioner]

The myth that these people are working from -- that total compliance with God's wishes will result in "blessings from above" -- is one of the most insidious and ludicrous ideas around. It must be fought at every turn, because it erodes away at everything that we have gained as a nation and society from day one....the theocrat-in-waiting that I linked to considers the societies of Calvin and the New England Pilgrims to have been "true Christian societies."...The fact that they did not survive doesn't appear to have affected his judgment of their viability either. Yet he (and many others) are today urging America to try it out again.

No way will I stand idly aside and just say "I can't convince them, so let them be." Their aim is to spread a killing virus. I have a different plan in mind.

Unfortunately for me, I can't seem to stand idly while they spread their poison either. The truly weird thing
is anybody claiming to be a Christian minister teaching that if people just live according to Christian principles, they will be successful in this world. Jesus explicitly taught the opposite. He taught that the reward for living a good life would come in the NEXT world. Yet another example of how they reject the teachings of the very God they profess to follow.

I particularly like your observation that the societies they say were truly Christian did not survive. Neither did the Shakers.

[BecauseHeLives]

The truly weird thing
is anybody claiming to be a Christian minister teaching that if people just live according to Christian principles, they will be successful in this world. Jesus explicitly taught the opposite. He taught that the reward for living a good life would come in the NEXT world. Yet another example of how they reject the teachings of the very God they profess to follow.

VERY good Questioner. You are 100% correct. Lots of evangelists (false prophets), not all evangelists, are going to pay dearly for preaching earthly rewards for Christians and steering clear of any of the hard stuff that might offend any of his audience.

Good Stuff Q

[A Person]

The truly weird thing is anybody claiming to be a Christian minister teaching that if people just live according to Christian principles, they will be successful in this world. Jesus explicitly taught the opposite. He taught that the reward for living a good life would come in the NEXT world. Yet another example of how they reject the teachings of the very God they profess to follow.

Really?

If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]

Nothing there about the afterlife.

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

That's about as clear as the Bible gets. Ask for food, it will be given you. What use will fish or bread be in the afterlife?

[Questioner]

...

If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer. [Matthew 21:21]

If you ask anything in my name, I will do it. [John 14:14]

Ask, and it will be given you. [Matthew 7:7]

Nothing will be impossible to you. [Matthew 17:20]

Believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. [Mark 11:24]

Nothing there about the afterlife.

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

That's about as clear as the Bible gets. Ask for food, it will be given you. What use will fish or bread be in the afterlife?

You misunderstand those quotes. They were referring to spiritual blessings. Peace of heart. Solace in grief. Heaven in the afterlife. They were not referring to earthly wealth.

[A Person]

Misunderstand? The language is plain and direct, and says nothing about spiritual blessings and everything about material ones. Of course since we know no material blessings come from prayer then this is a convenient excuse .

[HOPOMaster]

Hence the Salem Witch Trials under the Puritan theocracy. Under Massachusetts Puritan Law your religion was dictated to you, if you were not a member of the Puritan Church you were not considered a freeman or permitted to vote. Even Quakers could not hold office.

One law forbade the wearing of lace, another of "slashed cloaths other than one slash in each sleeve and another in the back." The length and width of a lady's sleeve was solemnly decided by law. It was a penal offense for a man to wear long hair, or to smoke in the street, or for a youth to court a maid without the consent of her parents. A man was not permitted to kiss his wife in public. Captain Kimble, returning from a three-years' ocean voyage, kissed his wife on his own doorstep and spent two hours in the stocks for his "lewed and unseemly behavior."

Slavery was ensconced in law, Christmas outlawed, blasphemers and those who persisted in the wrong faith executed.

So - yes, the colonies were indeed founded on Christian principles.

Those atrocities were likely carried out by believers and NOT Christians. It's easy to point out the bad things that "Christians" have done in the name of their "faith". It would be just as easy to do the opposite. Or to point out the atrocities done by atheists is the past. You can make the "stats" look as good or as bad as you want to do. It doesn't change your first statement in your reply.

The COLONIES were founded upon religeous principles which were heavily Christianity in nature.

At the risk of appearing to steal one of C Alice's ideas...

And no true Scotsman will play bagpipes for money, either.

For the record, there was an interesting episode of Fresh Air on NPR a couple of months back on the topic of Church/State Separation. They pretty much said it wasn't codified in the Constitution, but that all of the founding fathers wanted C/S Separation because they didn't want the government to be able to tell them how to practice their religion. They also saw many of the laws that the colonies had enacted and wanted to avoid those laws being able to be enacted at the national level. Even some of the most die-hard Christian Founding Fathers were in favor of C/S separation. Now, I wonder, does that make them any less Christian in the minds of C/S Separation opponents?

M.H.