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The effect of changing religions

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:49 pm

When I was a child, and on into my early teen years, I was an atheist. At about the age of 16, I converted to Christianity. As with many newly converted people, I was full of evangelical zeal, and I tried to convert my family to join me in my new religion.

There, I came up against a solid wall of resistance and an important lesson in my life. I had never overtly discussed religion with my family, and I had no idea what they had experienced before I came on the scene. My mother knew full well what sort of evil can happen when a person gets too religious. Her mother, being a Christian Science follower, had refused to treat her diabetes. My maternal grandmother had been luckier than most in one respect. The stroke that finally occurred had killed her pretty quickly, and she never went through the horrors of losing her limbs and eyesight as some I've seen. My Dad came from a somewhat Dickensian upbringing. His birth was "scandalous," by the standards of early 20th century England, and he had been handed to a poor family in the country to be raised. He experienced the harsh reality of religious authorities and their attitude toward "bastards." So he had little use for religion nearly all his life.

Later, as I was "growing in Christian zeal" as the Southern Baptists sometimes say, I learned that some of my views on religion and other matters didn't quite jibe with many in my chosen church. It bothered me that I was a pacifist in an increasingly militant congregation. I was socially progressive on some matters, but that sure didn't sit well with many others around me. Heck, I carried on in my life a fair number of Communist positions, and that got me a few stern talking-tos from my Sunday School teachers. I have to say, that made me pretty indignant.

I went on in this manner for a few years before I finally realized something. I was pissing off an awful lot of people with my attitudes. I think the turning point came when I claimed in front of my fellow co-workers at a knitting mill that when I became a Christian that I stopped masturbating, due to its being an unholy thing to do. Yeah... I had the religion bug so bad that I was willing to lie in my efforts to convert others. Please note: before you start going on about onanism, remember the truism that 98% of all men masturbate... the other 2% are liars.

Anyway, that sort of thing bothered me, because it went against some of my most dearly held values. I got down on myself for going so far overboard. It was time to re-think a lot of things. Particularly how I viewed the unalterable fact that there are always going to be a lot of folks who disagree with me. I came to the conclusion that arguing with everyone was not going to be profitable for much of anything.

So I started to learn and practice the art of getting along. The rest is history, such as it is.

But the other day, I came across a recent convert to Christianity, one of these folks who call themselves "Jews for Jesus." I started seeing him post to a newspaper blog I often look in on. What impressed me about him was his combative style. He had an uncompromising view of others. Like one quote of Jesus, he seemed to think if you aren't with him, you're an enemy. And if you turned out to be an enemy, hoo boy! You get a lot of talk about hate, a lot of capitals (known in the posting world as shouting), and not a lot of listening.

I thought that anyone who has gone through the heartache, trouble, and difficulties of changing religious standpoints, as I have, would have developed a slightly less aggressive attitude than this. After all, he should know, I thought, that people of differing views are just people, not enemies. Then, I thought back to my first years as a Christian and realized that maybe a rigid attitude is a natural part of a new convert's mindset. Perhaps it is an attempt to guard against further discomfort of shifting views again.

Of course, that leads to other guesses about why those who never change their convictions can be every bit as nasty to outsiders... but they'd be only guesses.
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Postby Liv » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:34 am

Is SFI really Christine O'Donnell?
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:22 pm

Those with opposing views of Christianity and purposely (or unpurposely) work against Jesus Christ (think Muslims or evangelical atheists here) are part of the anti-Christ. On the other hand, those who do not believe or are not sure if they believe are simply lost.

One is the enemy. The other is not.
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Postby A Person » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:59 pm

Being anti-religion does not make one anti-Christ and especially not the Antichrist

Most atheists have little problem with Jesus' social teachings (or at least the teachings ascribed to Jesus), Christians would be better people if they paid more attention to Jesus than Paul - and abandoned Moses completely.

Image

The Antichrist sits in the Temple, claims divinity, and performs miracles of all power. Oh and God sends people strong delusions so that they may believe a lie (2 Thessalonians 2)

Sounds a lot more like an American Evangelist than any atheist






How do you know YOU are not one of those God sent a strong delusion?
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:47 pm

It really is simple AP. Any person who is agaisnt Christ is part of the anti-Christ.

On a side note... I think Benny Hinn is a false prophet.
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Postby A Person » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:53 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:On a side note... I think Benny Hinn is a false prophet.


Pity his congregation then, since God has sent them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

They shall be gathered as dry branches and burned in the everlasting fire.

I bet they think they're the ones going to be Raptured too. Boy won't that be a hoot when they find out.






On a side note... I think Sterling VanDerwerker is a false prophet.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:51 am

AP, It must be tough being an evangelical atheist this close to Christmas.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:02 am

A Person wrote:Being anti-religion does not make one anti-Christ and especially not the Antichrist

Most atheists have little problem with Jesus' social teachings ...

I suppose this is true in some cases. I always like the "sermon on the mount," because it had several statements that resonated with the personality I had growing up. Of course, if taken as a whole, understood accurately, there are some bits from that which are probably a good recipe for personal disaster ("turn the other cheek," for instance) that I could never endorse. And I have to say that it appears that there are few Christians that do so either.

But the statements about loving one's neighbor, living with some measure of empathy and forgiving things you would hope others might forgive in you... these teachings are not unique to Jesus, but they certainly do seem to have some good wisdom behind them. And as you said, I would expect the world to be a lot nicer place to live were all Christians to put forth the effort to follow them.

But such is life: Christians are creatures primarily of their parochial instincts, and those instincts are ill-suited to life in a metropolitan world. Ho hum.

:|
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Postby A Person » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:21 am

BecauseHeLives wrote:AP, It must be tough being an evangelical atheist this close to Christmas.


Another non sequitur. A silly one too. Atheists can enjoy the Christmas traditions of feasting, gifting, mistletoe, decorating trees etc. just as well as Christians. We can enjoy the Norse Yuletide mythology without believing in Odin and Baldur and the Christian Nativity myth without believing in Yahweh and Jesus.

christmasguns.jpg
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Postby Jamy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 1:28 pm

I had to cut loose a lifelong, childhood friend who went nutty with religion. Once she "found Jesus" she became a judgmental, busybody who spent more time pointing out Christian failing with others than rooting out and asking forgiveness of her own sins.

SFI, maybe you should have eased into Christianity by starting with the Unitarians. :lol: Actually, your post resonated with me as far as the more relaxed views go. I've never had one of those periods of religious zeal, however. I question too many things to be able to drown myself in the blood of the lamb.
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:58 pm

Jamy wrote:I had to cut loose a lifelong, childhood friend who went nutty with religion. Once she "found Jesus" she became a judgmental, busybody who spent more time pointing out Christian failing with others than rooting out and asking forgiveness of her own sins.

SFI, maybe you should have eased into Christianity by starting with the Unitarians. :lol: Actually, your post resonated with me as far as the more relaxed views go. I've never had one of those periods of religious zeal, however. I question too many things to be able to drown myself in the blood of the lamb.


I about spit up my soda when you recommended the Unitarians! LOL I think SFI and his group meet at the Unitarian church (at least they used to do so).

As far as your friend goes with asking forgiveness of her sins... Once saved always saved from the damnable consequences of sin past, present and future. She doesn't need to spend time asking forgiveness of sins already forgiven. Her assignemnt is to go spread the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a shame you felt that you had to give up such a friend.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:39 pm

Jamy wrote:SFI, maybe you should have eased into Christianity by starting with the Unitarians. :lol:

I think had I tried out the Unitarians to start off, I would have stayed with them. And I probably would have learned more about all religions at a far younger age than I actually did. Oh well, just one more regret for my life, I suppose.
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Postby Jamy » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:23 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote: It is a shame you felt that you had to give up such a friend.


I got sick and tired of listening to her go on and on about who the "good Christians were" and giving me detailed laundry lists of the people in her church who fell short. She also talked complete sh#t about our friends. She condemned people for being "bad spouses" while screwing around on her own husband and partying every other weekend. God may have forgiven her for her sins, past, present, and future, but Jamy couldn't take any more of the BS. Friends like that, I can do without.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:35 pm

That's really one of the more serious side-effects of religious zealotry: such people very often end up driving away friends and potential friends because of their non-stop judgments against others who are even slightly different. I know I lost out on a lot of friendships when I got "born again." My wife lost her best friend from high school when that friend got "true religion" and started going to a "real church." Zealots may think they are "living life more abundantly," but they are doing so in isolation, shutting off much of the human contact that would otherwise be available if they could only find some way to relax from time to time.
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Postby A Person » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:44 pm

The doctrine of 'once saved, always saved' defeats the argument for moral utility we often hear. i.e. the claim that religion is useful because it makes sinful people behave themselves for fear of post mortem retribution. If a Christian thinks that he is assured salvation - no matter what he does (raping children, stealing from the poor, eating shellfish, flying a plane into a mosque) then what prevents him from sinning?

It's also unbiblical.

Jesus says:

Matthew 13 (NIV)
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.

Paul (who we know is more important than Jesus) says:

1 Corinthians 15:2 (NIV) By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain

And finally it's astoundingly arrogant and presumptuous to tell God who he must save.
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Postby Jamy » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:29 am

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:That's really one of the more serious side-effects of religious zealotry: such people very often end up driving away friends and potential friends because of their non-stop judgments against others who are even slightly different. I know I lost out on a lot of friendships when I got "born again." My wife lost her best friend from high school when that friend got "true religion" and started going to a "real church."


I can say with 100% honesty, that it broke my heart to cut this woman out of my life. I was 40 at that time and had been friends with her since we were 14. I thought of her as family and I genuinely grieved the death of our friendship. Most negative aspects of religion, are man-made miseries.
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Postby A Person » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:12 am

Jamy wrote:Most negative aspects of religion, are man-made miseries.

That's hardly surprising given that all aspects of religion are man-made
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Postby Jamy » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:34 pm

A Person wrote:
Jamy wrote:Most negative aspects of religion, are man-made miseries.

That's hardly surprising given that all aspects of religion are man-made


Huh....Yeah I suppose you're right. I never thought about it like that.
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Postby Sanjuro » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:56 pm

Jamy wrote:
SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:That's really one of the more serious side-effects of religious zealotry: such people very often end up driving away friends and potential friends because of their non-stop judgments against others who are even slightly different. I know I lost out on a lot of friendships when I got "born again." My wife lost her best friend from high school when that friend got "true religion" and started going to a "real church."


I can say with 100% honesty, that it broke my heart to cut this woman out of my life. I was 40 at that time and had been friends with her since we were 14. I thought of her as family and I genuinely grieved the death of our friendship. Most negative aspects of religion, are man-made miseries.


I can completely relate to that. Lost a couple of good friends because of their association to extremest Pentecostal Christianity and intimate manipulation by the pastors. Same situation.. damnation, hellfire, judgmental attitudes, etc. They are encouraged to try to convert their friends or cut them out either mentally or physically. Very cult-like.
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