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SFI Bible Study - part 11

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:12 pm

As always, I hope this can be a serious study of the Christian Bible, and I only ask that those who participate try to stay away from personal-level attacks. All pertinent comments are welcome, regardless of whether you are a believer or not.

Here we finish up in the book of Deuternonmy. Sure, there's plenty of other interesting things left to look at there. But we'll be moving on next time, anyway.
Deu 17:14-20 - When you have come into the land that the LORD your God is giving you, and you have taken possession of it and settled in it, and you say, "I will set a king over me, like all the nations that are around me," you may indeed set over you a king whom the LORD your God will choose. One of your own community you may set as king over you; you are not permitted to put a foreigner over you, who is not of your own community. Even so, he must not acquire many horses for himself, or return the people to Egypt in order to acquire more horses, since the LORD has said to you, "you must never return that way again." And he must not acquire many wives for himself, or else his heart will turn away; also silver and gold he must not acquire in great quantity for himself. When he has taken the throne of his kingdom, he shall have a copy of this law written for him in the presence of the levitical priests. It shall remain with him and he shall read it in all the days of his life, so that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, diligently observing all the words of this law and these statutes, neither exalting himself above the other members of the community nor turning aside from the commandment, either to the right or to the left, so that he and his descendants may reign long over his kingdom in Israel.

This passage is one of the reasons I think Deuteronomy was written long after the fabled time of Moses and the Exodus. We see here commands for any kings that Israel might have, ordering the king not to have too many wives. Could this possibly indicate that this passage was written long after the fiasco with Solomon? Would Solomon (the most wise) actually read this every day and disobey God's law? Also, what could they possibly mean, telling the king to not exalt himself over other folks? Isn't that what being king MEANS? In any event, the time Israel existed as one nation with a king was short enough. I can't help but wonder if this was written to accuse the kings of Israel in an ex post facto set-up?
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Postby RebelSnake » Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:24 pm

Seems to me christians could use this as justification for a religious takeover of government."It's in the bible!!"
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:15 pm

RebelSnake wrote:Seems to me christians could use this as justification for a religious takeover of government."It's in the bible!!"

A couple of reasons this won't fly as a proof text for taking over the goverment: The king isn't permitted to have TOO MANY wives, and he's not allowed to be too wealthy. Those would be deal-killers for most kings.

One other thing that just struck me about this -- there is a contradiction in this passage as to who decides who gets to be king. Did you catch that? :wink:
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Postby RebelSnake » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:58 pm

I presume you're refering to the people setting a king god will choose? And your two reasons won't fyy either. Who decides how much is too much?
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:17 pm

RebelSnake wrote:I presume you're refering to the people setting a king god will choose? And your two reasons won't fyy[sic] either. Who decides how much is too much?

That's right. The whole statement wasn't well thought out. First it says God will do the picking, then it gives "rules for choosing." That's nonsense, in a very literal meaning.

Well, as to deciding how much wealth or how many wives are too much -- I don't recall those things being spelled out. Maybe BHL or ETP can enlighten us. In the absence of concrete rules, I would assume that priests would take on the task of definitions that God left out.
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Postby jb » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:34 am

No, this is not a justification for a religious takeover of government. What Moses is essentially saying is, I know when you enter the land The Lord your God has given you, one day you will want a King. For some reason you will want to be like all the other nations who have a king. But this is not what the Lord wants.

Moses, Joshua and a succession of judges were chosen directly by the Lord to govern Israel on his behalf. A king was contrary to what God ideal was for them. (Judges 8:23) Gideon said there “The Lord will rule over you”. Moses is just giving guidance concerning the eventual selection of a king (v14-20)

As for Solomon, he did do the very things that Moses said not to do. There is no doubt that Solomon knew the Laws. He is just guilty of disobeying them. 1 Kings 4:26; 10:14-22; 11:1-4. He was wise but yet selfish. Solomon is just like a lot of Christians today. If you were to ask a “Christian” if they have broke one of God’s laws then they will say “yes”. If you were to ask them if the knew the law before they broke it then many will say yes. It’s sin and it’s hard…plain and simple. I’m not perfect but I know One who is.

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