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SFI Bible Study - part 22

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:22 pm

As always, I hope this can be a serious study of the Christian Bible, and I only ask that those who participate try to stay away from personal-level attacks. All pertinent comments are welcome, regardless of whether you are a believer or not.

This week, we check in on some rather good logic from the Book of First Kings, from the story of Elijah.
1 Ki 18:21-29 - Elijah then came near to all the people, and said, "How long will you go limping along with two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him." The people did not answer him a word. Then Elijah said to the people, "I, even I only, am left a prophet to the LORD; but Baal's prophets number four hundred fifty. Let two bulls be given to us; let them choose one bull for themselves, cut it in pieces, and lay it in the wood, but put no fire to it; I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. Then you call on the name of your god and I will call on the name of the LORD; the god who answers by fire is indeed God." All the people answered, "Well spoken!" Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many; then call on the name of your god, but put no fire to it.” So they took the bull that was given them, prepared it, and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon, crying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no answer. They limped about the altar that they had made. At noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud! Surely he is a god; either he is meditating, or he has wandered away, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” Then they cried aloud and, as was their custom, they cut themselves with swords and lances until the blood gushed out over them. As midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice, no answer, and no response.

1 Ki 18:36-40 - At the time of the offering of the oblation, the prophet Elijah came near and said, “O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your bidding. Answer me, O LORD, answer me, so that this people may know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you have turned their hearts back.” Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt offering, the wood, the stones, and the dust, and even licked up the water that was in the trench. When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and said, “The LORD indeed is God; the LORD indeed is God.” Elijah said to them, “Seize the prophets of Baal; do not let one of them escape.” Then they seized them; and Elijah brought them down to the Wadi Kishon, and killed them there.

Well spoken, indeed. The background of the story is one of apostacy and the struggle in Israel for who would control the religion of the people. Jezebel, the wife of King Ahab, was favoring Baal, and persecuting the followers of YHWH. Before this, Elijah had been at work, telling the people that the drought the nation was suffering from was caused by their lack of adherance to the "true" faith. Now, things have come to a head, and this is the final showdown.

As we can see at the end of the confrontation, Elijah makes good use of the inaction of Baal, pointing out that no matter what Baal's followers do, they'll not get any action out of him. As we've seen before, this is an example of how easy it is for believers to see the logical fallacies of other peoples' religions. However, this story differs from the one we saw in Judges, concerning Gideon -- in this passage, YHWH takes a hand and comes through for Elijah, proving to all who attended the demonstration that he actually exists.

In the denoument, all the evil followers of Baal are killed, as we'd expect would happen to the enemies of a victorious war god.

Comments?
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Postby RebelSnake » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:18 pm

Whatever happened to blind faith? Or is that only in the nt?
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Postby BecauseHeLives » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:25 pm

Whatever happened to blind faith? Or is that only in the nt?


You'll have to show me ANYWHERE in the bible it discusses blind faith. I must have missed that chapter.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:43 pm

BecauseHeLives wrote:You'll have to show me ANYWHERE in the bible it discusses blind faith. I must have missed that chapter.

You know, I only know of stories about people testing for God's presence in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, you sure get a lot of folks being told that it's wrong to ask for any sort of confirmation from God. I expect you have also said it's wrong to do so.

Heck, even in the Gospels, you have stories about how Jesus refused to do any sort of tricks in front of people who questioned his claimed status. We'll discuss those stories by and by.
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Postby A Person » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:23 pm

I'd have to think that Elija rigged things a bit. I'll put good money that that wasn't water in the trench that got licked up by fire.

As for 'blind' faith vs 'real' faith - there really is no difference. Faith is belief not based on proof. If it's proven then it's not faith.

The 'blind' is a tautological pejorative.

As SFI says, it was acceptable in the OT to test God and he obligingly came through with a selection of conjuring tricks. He's stopped doing that in the Western world as we're too sophisticated to be taken in by the likes of Yuri Geller and Sylvia Browne ;)

It's now considered bad form to test God.
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Postby RebelSnake » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:40 pm

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:
Heck, even in the Gospels, you have stories about how Jesus refused to do any sort of tricks in front of people who questioned his claimed status.


No dog and pony tricks from him I guess. Would've blown the whole illusion.
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