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SFI Bible Study - part 36

Or Allah for that matter?

Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Thu May 10, 2007 4:01 pm

As always, I hope this can be a serious study of the Christian Bible, and I only ask that those who participate try to stay away from personal-level attacks. All pertinent comments are welcome, regardless of whether you are a believer or not.

This will be a rather long post. I want to explore some of the fun things that can happen when translating passages in the Bible. We'll be looking at a Psalm that is rather important in Christian theology: Psalm 22.
Ps 22 - My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry by day, but you do not answer; and by night, but find no rest. Yet you are holy, enthroned on the praises of Israel. In you our ancestors trusted; they trusted, and you delivered them. To you they cried, and were saved; in you they trusted, and were not put to shame. But I am a worm, and not human; scorned by others, and despised by the people. All who see me mock at me; they make mouths at me, they shake their heads; "Commit your cause to the Lord; let him deliver— let him rescue the one in whom he delights!" Yet it was you who took me from the womb; you kept me safe on my mother's breast. On you I was cast from my birth, and since my mother bore me you have been my God.

Do not be far from me, for trouble is near and there is no one to help. Many bulls encircle me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me; they open wide their mouths at me, like a ravening and roaring lion. I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax; it is melted within my breast; my mouth (N1) is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws; you lay me in the dust of death. For dogs are all around me; a company of evildoers encircles me. My hands and feet have shriveled; (N2) I can count all my bones. They stare and gloat over me; they divide my clothes among themselves, and for my clothing they cast lots. But you, O Lord, do not be far away! O my help, come quickly to my aid! Deliver my soul from the sword, my life (N3) from the power of the dog! Save me from the mouth of the lion! From the horns of the wild oxen you have rescued (N4) me.

I will tell of your name to my brothers and sisters; (N5) in the midst of the congregation I will praise you: You who fear the Lord, praise him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify him; stand in awe of him, all you offspring of Israel! For he did not despise or abhor the affliction of the afflicted; he did not hide his face from me, (N6) but heard when I (N7) cried to him. From you comes my praise in the great congregation; my vows I will pay before those who fear him. The poor (N8 ) shall eat and be satisfied; those who seek him shall praise the Lord. May your hearts live forever! All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord; and all the families of the nations shall worship before him. (N9) For dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. To him, (N10) indeed, shall all who sleep in (N11) the earth bow down; before him shall bow all who go down to the dust, and I shall live for him. (N12) Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord, and (N13) proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, saying that he has done it.

First off, let’s look at the 13 footnotes that are included with this rather short psalm in the New Revised Standard Version:

N1: Cn: Heb [strength]
N2: Meaning of Heb uncertain
N3: Heb [my only one]
N4: Heb [answered]
N5: Or [kindred]
N6: Heb [him]
N7: Heb [he]
N8: Or [afflicted]
N9: Gk Syr Jerome: Heb [you]
N10: Cn: Heb [They have eaten and]
N11: Cn: Heb [all the fat ones]
N12: Compare Gk Syr Vg: Heb [and he who cannot keep himself alive]
N13: Compare Gk: Heb [it will be told about the Lord to the generation, +V31+Wthey will come and]

Next, we look over a commentary on this psalm from the Christian website http://www.blueletterbible.org
The Spirit of Christ, which was in the prophets, testifies in this psalm, as clearly and fully as any where in all the Old Testament, "the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow’’; of him, no doubt, David here speaks, and not of himself, or any other man. Much of it is expressly applied to Christ in the New Testament, all of it may be applied to him, and some of it must be understood of him only. The providences of God concerning David were so very extraordinary that we may suppose there were some wise and good men who then could not but look upon him as a figure of him that was to come. But the composition of his psalms especially, in which he found himself wonderfully carried out by the spirit of prophecy far beyond his own thought and intention, was (we may suppose) an abundant satisfaction to himself that he was not only a father of the Messiah, but a figure of him. In this psalm he speaks, I. Of the humiliation of Christ (v. 1–21), where David, as a type of Christ, complains of the very calamitous condition he was in upon many accounts. 1. He complains, and mixes comforts with his complaints; he complains (v. 1, 2), but comforts himself (v. 3-5), complains again (v. 6-8 ), but comforts himself again, (v. 9, 10). 2. He complains, and mixes prayers with his complaints; he complains of the power and rage of his enemies (v. 12, 13, 16, 18 ), of his own bodily weakness and decay (v. 14, 15, 17); but prays that God would not be far from him (v. 11, 19), that he would save and deliver him (v. 19–21). II. Of the exaltation of Christ, that his undertaking should be for the glory of God (v. 22–25), for the salvation and joy of his people (v. 26–29), and for the perpetuating of his own kingdom (v. 30, 31). In singing this psalm we must keep our thoughts fixed upon Christ, and be so affected with his sufferings as to experience the fellowship of them, and so affected with his grace as to experience the power and influence of it.
In case you’re wondering what all of the brouhaha is about, you may be interested to know that in two of the Gospels, Matthew and Mark, the last words of Jesus as he died were a quote from the opening of this psalm. No doubt, the writers of the Gospels thought this psalm was very closely linked to Jesus, as the Matthew Henry commentary quote above would indicate.

When I first read this Psalm, coming to it as open-minded as I could, it seemed to me that the psalm could very well have been written with David in mind, during the time he was running as a fugitive away from King Saul. If you look over the footnotes and their locations in the passage, you’ll see that some very interesting editing has taken place in the process of translation. I note that the commentary tries to lead the reader to accept that this Psalm was written only as a prophecy of the coming Messiah. In simply looking at the text, I can’t see how this might be.

Comments?
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Postby Questioner » Thu May 10, 2007 10:38 pm

SouthernFriedInfidel wrote:When I first read this Psalm, coming to it as open-minded as I could, it seemed to me that the psalm could very well have been written with David in mind, during the time he was running as a fugitive away from King Saul. If you look over the footnotes and their locations in the passage, you’ll see that some very interesting editing has taken place in the process of translation. I note that the commentary tries to lead the reader to accept that this Psalm was written only as a prophecy of the coming Messiah. In simply looking at the text, I can’t see how this might be.

Comments?
I have always thought of this song (psalms were originally songs-and for that reason may have been fairly accurately transmitted down through several generations) as an expression of the pain of living. The possibility of being defeated and having your possessions taken and offered by lots to the conqurors was a real thing to those people.

The Messiah was expected to fulfill the prophecies, and so there has been a lot of working and reworking to try and fit OT passages to a later event. But the psalms were not necessarily written as prophecies. However, given that songs of the people tend to express a variety of fairly universal human experiences and emotions, they can seem as prophecies. And what person aged 20 or more has not felt the desolation expressed in the first part of that song? Certainly, if someone wrote that song about David's time of exile (or if David himself wrote that song), it was probably a pretty accurate account of how he felt at times.
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Postby SouthernFriedInfidel » Thu May 10, 2007 11:06 pm

Questioner wrote:I have always thought of this song (psalms were originally songs-and for that reason may have been fairly accurately transmitted down through several generations) as an expression of the pain of living. The possibility of being defeated and having your possessions taken and offered by lots to the conqurors was a real thing to those people.

The Messiah was expected to fulfill the prophecies, and so there has been a lot of working and reworking to try and fit OT passages to a later event. But the psalms were not necessarily written as prophecies.

I once asked a rabbi that I knew -- a Jewish mystic living in NYC -- what he thought of this, and whether the Jews of OT times had seen this as a prophecy. He never got back to me on that. :(

I was just thinking today that the differences between the current Christian translation and Jewish translation might be most interesting to see.
However, given that songs of the people tend to express a variety of fairly universal human experiences and emotions, they can seem as prophecies. And what person aged 20 or more has not felt the desolation expressed in the first part of that song? Certainly, if someone wrote that song about David's time of exile (or if David himself wrote that song), it was probably a pretty accurate account of how he felt at times.

I think this is one reason why I see the Psalms overall as the most human of the books of the Bible. These songs were written for everyday use as well as for special ceremonial purposes, and they seem to be an honest reflection of the minds of the people who wrote them, rather than the "spun" accounts of national greatness you see in other books.
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