Every Generation Shall Have a Prophet.

Every Generation Shall Have a Prophet.

by William Joseph Published on October 25th, 2009, 6:25 pm Rift: Religion

Southern fried infidel wrote

a man who 2000 years ago agitated against the "establishment" and preached universal love is now the favorite guy to invoke when going to war or urging that people have a right -- nay eve a DUTY -- to own guns.

I from the inside of the faith do on this point become very angry because it is so misrepresentative of the actual writtings concerning Christ and the emphasis of His life and ministrty.

That is what happens when people make Jesus into their own personal subjective saviour who is more akin to a jeanie instead of one who will infact juge the world according to thier right or wrong relationship to him.

North Amecican Christian culture could never survive in places like China where beleif and practice could cost you everything and even your life.

When jesus said that his followers were to be persecuted it was to be for genuine "salt and Light" faith and living truthfully and lovingly even toward our enemies. When people try to graft biblical principles to secular thinking you are diluting the faith and numbing the culture to the strong claims and Power of the Gospel.

So southern fried infidel though we fundamenatly disagree regarding the claims of Christ and His claim upon our lives you are disdcerning a problem that is as real and bothersome to me as it is to you. Yet for diferent reasons.
let me also say to all of the other forum members.
our topic of religious discussion is one that qutie naturally brings out our strongest convictions and deeply rooted belefs about life I have to keep reminding myself that when I aproach our converstaions here that my steriotypical notion of who i am talking to is just that , a notion. There is no such thing as a secularist that actually fits the steriotype.

The topics are difficult and your observations and objections to biblical faith are not easily answered. so before i go any furthur let me say that I do not mean to make light of difficult topics such as slavery in the O.T or any other difficulty. You bring out topics that are debated even amoung Christians as to context and meaning.
I don't think it is wise to attempt to dilute or make some sort of moral jusification on behalf of God. He does't need my help. He is who He is. ( I am who I am as he declared to moses).

I actually have some of the same questions yet somehow i trust and even Love God and beleive that Jesus christ is a great redeemer for sinners simply because he has proved himself to be ,both objectivly ( He went to the cross) and subjectively ( The love of God is shed abroad in my heart).

When i die all of my hope is in Him and i have not ignored the longins of my soul to know the love and peace of God while i live.

" Seek and ye shall find" Some people are not seeking.

[A Person]

In a nutshell "Don't listen to God there are no consequences for disobeying, you can decide for yourself what is right and wrong through the powers of your own subjective and independant self reasoning"

So when God says it's OK to buy, take and own slaves how do you decide for yourself what is right and wrong, if not through the powers of your own subjective and independent self reasoning?

"Did God surely say that may keep slaves"
" you will surely not die"
"God knows that if you eat of the fruit you will be like God knowing the difference between good and evil"

Fortunately Eve did, so that we may discern the evil that is enslavement. Or alternatively we had the ability all along.

[William Joseph]

Please read the post at the top of Page 6. ( Sometimes the toop post gets missed)

[William Joseph]

A person wrote ( About eating the frobidden fruit)

Fortunately Eve did, so that we may discern the evil that is enslavement. Or alternatively we had the ability all along.

Yes we gained a new perspective and understanding through it but was it reallly worth it?
We lost something. The intimate loving connection to God. The loss of this plagues humanity it brings destruction, misery death and confusion. Satan did not lie about what might be added but what about what would be lost.
The first result was shame .We had something to hide. We discoverd our first evil our own guilt that brought about our own misery.

Genisis 3:15 however is the first promise of a messiah who would triumph and erase the shame. Right in ther midst of Gods judgment comes hope for a reversal this One is Christ.

Genesis 3:15 (ESV)
15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”

The offspring are not some weird produce of sexual relation but of both the ongoing perpetuating of either the lies of Satan about self reliance or the Truth of God About trust in His word.In particualr this new information with regard to a saviour who would triumph. Every prophet brought more revelation about what God woould eventually do through Christ. There are only two types of people in the world those who trust in Christ or trust in anything but Christ.

People on both sides of the cross had to trust in a representitive mediator that points to Christ.

[A Person]

Yes we gained a new perspective and understanding through it but was it reallly worth it?

I expect the sons of Ham think so. Otherwise they would still be slaves, being beaten with many stripes.

We lost something. The intimate loving connection to God. The loss of this plagues humanity it brings destruction, misery death and confusion.

No that WAS God. You know the one that drowned almost the entire life on the planet. And brought plagues and calamity tot eh world.

Frankly my observations suggest that the further away from God a society gets, the better it becomes. More caring, affluent, productive etc.

[SouthernFriedInfidel]

Frankly my observations suggest that the further away from God a society gets, the better it becomes. More caring, affluent, productive etc.

I'm sure that someone will suggest that Communist China and the Soviet Union would serve as counter-examples. In anticipation of this, I'll point out that both of those examples are perhaps a bit misleading. First off, while they did work diligently to suppress the varying religions in their borders, they also worked hard to set up personality cults around their leaders... just as North Korea does today. So they had different gods, rather than a true lack of god.

Also, both of those examples, while they did present rather nasty problems for dissidents, they both managed to improve the lives of nearly all the people far better than most other societies in the past. Give credit where it's due, IMO.

Now, looking at some other rather interesting paces where god is getting set aside, rather than just replaced: look to Europe. With only a few exceptions, the society of Europe is becoming far more secular than America has ever been. And they do far more to improve the quality of everyone's lives than America has yet dreamed. Whether that's a cause-and-effect relationship or pure coincidence, I'll not hazard a guess. I do note, however, that the religious authorities in Europe now fully support the social programs like government-run health care and mandated vacations. As so often happens with religion, they opposed changes until society forced them to accept those changes.

[william joseph]

i response to:

William Joseph wrote:
We lost something. The intimate loving connection to God. The loss of this plagues humanity it brings destruction, misery death and confusion.

A person Wrote;
No that WAS God. You know the one that drowned almost the entire life on the planet. And brought plagues and calamity tot eh world.

This occoured in the context that is described in Genisis 6:5 (...the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

However these realities are only the outskirts of the heart of the subject.

God promised that life would continue in all the goodness of God's garden if they obeyed his Voice.
He also promised that to eat the fruit would bring destruction. God in his permissive will now would both allow death and would also bring death.

The Devil promised that they would face no consequence ( no t experience Death in both phisical and Spiritual terms).

just because God uses means to keep his promise do we find fault?



which one lied, which one lured which one knew that indeed the people would suffer if they listened to his counsel?

God kept his promise Satan is the father of lies and he blinds men to truth. we are in a mess because of his influence. God simply carried out exactly the promise and the consequence that he said would come about.

God has not lied about the consequence nor failed to prove himself truthful.

Satan lied about the full consequence and do we really want to continue to beleive the father of lies?
God knew all about this and has brought about a way to gain that eternal life that we forfieted both in the sin of adam and in our own rebellion.

[william joseph]

Southern fried infidel wrote:

I'm sure that someone will suggest that Communist China and the Soviet Union would serve as counter-examples. In anticipation of this, I'll point out that both of those examples are perhaps a bit misleading. First off, while they did work diligently to suppress the varying religions in their borders, they also worked hard to set up personality cults around their leaders... just as North Korea does today. So they had different gods, rather than a true lack of god....

Now, looking at some other rather interesting paces where god is getting set aside, rather than just replaced: look to Europe. With only a few exceptions, the society of Europe is becoming far more secular than America has ever been. And they do far more to improve the quality of everyone's lives than America has yet dreamed. Whether that's a cause-and-effect relationship or pure coincidence, I'll not hazard a guess. I do note, however, that the religious authorities in Europe now fully support the social programs like government-run health care and mandated vacations. As so often happens with religion, they opposed changes until society forced them to accept those changes.

Every move of political and social reform and ideology that benifits the masses shows great promise. Eventually though they fall far short of the Hope or collapse all together. The Euoropean situation is just beginning to show great progress in some key areas. Governing bodies are very important but they are currupt because people are currupt and eventually the ideology and the reality become divorced.


What Jesus offered was actually a kingdom that must first reside in the heart and then come out in the actions but this kingdom has a future aspect of eternal establishment. So since there will be a perfect society under the loving rule and reighn of God. It is a people restored to God. We were desighned with a purpose a fullfilling purpose.

Isn't that what people really want in society? It is not yet but a promise remains that those who are restored to a place under the Lordship of God will be filled with an eternal and abiding peace and live in the most satisfying condition of eternal fellowship with God and one another that is eternally secured.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.